Steve's DC5S

[Timmy_B]

Part out sussy?? LOL

Im glad its all paid off for u Stevan

[stevan]

Timmy after the pain that i have been through i will want to enjoy these for a while to come. I couldnt resist the urge to lower my car more though, regret it already because the steering is heavy again haha....

[plAythiNG]

lot and lot of picture is a must Steve!

[edfung81]

congratulation Steve for finally completed your socks mod, love to hear your after test review tonite lol ^^

[stevan]

UPDATE 4/7/2011 - Great Success!

Hey all,

This morning I took the DC5 and visited Dedy At Top One in Arncliffe to finish up the final pieces of my suspension, the goals of the day were to:

- Install Todds Modified Tie Rods
- Assemble and install rear AST dampers (and hope they fit this time )
- Set ride height and get an alignment done.

Told the boss i would be in late and arrived there first thing, coincidentally I also got to have a quick chat with Felix who was also dropping his DC2R in for some TLC, ClubITR at Top One...........



Dedy got to work and quickly had the new tie rods in place, he also gave me some new bumper clips for the underside of the front bar that had come off from scraping. The rear end assembly was something i was worrying about for a while and i eagerly anticipated the test fit to see how well the amended lower damper was designed, also of concern was the ride height i would achieve when the spring was preloaded.

First the OEM top hats were torqued onto the damper piston, the lower perch was raised to give a couple mm of preload as a starting point.

AST Damper with OEM Top Hats mounts....



You can see above the nicely redesigned lower bushing as well as a much smaller main spring then previously, the rear spring is 150/62ID/16kg/mm.

Here is a picture of the Modified Tie Rods installed, the oem tie rod bolt was used to double torque the bolt that came with the modified pair. You can also see the SWIFT 10kg springs i installed a few days ago to replace the 8kg AST ones that i found to be a tad soft.



The assembled rear dampers were then fitted to the rear, they slid in perfectly into the mounting bracket





I compared the length of the AST damper to my old BC ones and the AST was about 15mm shorter. When the car was dropped the rear sat about 40mm higher then it was originally, we lowered the lower perches 25mm each side and the car sat exactly where i wanted it. Due to the fact that i had to lower the perch, the preload on the spring was lost and now i have about 20mm of droop travel when the car is on a hoist, i don't think this will be an issue as i wont be getting the rear wheels airborne but it was something i could live without.

Alignment was done at Jax in Liverpool after recommendation from Alex and consequently from my dissatisfaction with the work done by Heasmans as well as the inflated pricing. For those interested in the Caster added from the PCI bushings here is a printout of the alignment specs....

Post Install Alignment



Impressions

The area where i live has some pretty windy and rural roads that are all but deserted at night (Timmy has an idea of what i am talking about ), one road in particular i like is a winding tight road that goes through a valley with heavy forest and shear rock face surrounding it on all sides. After fiddling around with the damping a little i headed down to give the car a run in.

After my first run through the valley i could barely conceal a big grin on my face as the car followed every input i made to through wheel, front end grip had increased drastically due to the proportionally stiffer rear controlling weight transfer under acceleration. The "ducking" i was feeling previously was gone, the dampers seem to firm up considerably when i shifted the car's weight and maintained flatness though the corners. The added stability also did wonders for the LSD coming out of corners, extra grip allowed the power to be transferred a lot smoother and with less wheel spin.

I found that on one heavy braking corner the front end would lift too suddenly upsetting the balance, i turned up the rebound damping a couple clicks and the car was much more settled on following runs. I rate the SWIFT metric springs too, they seem to be more lively then the original springs but are more compliant and comfortable over bumps etc, i may get another pair in a stiffer rate for the rear in the future.


Overall i am very pleased with the AST gear, still need to take it to the track for a real test but it will come. I would like to thank Michael from Raventech Racing for corresponding with AST and having the issue dealt with quickly when the first set failed. I also want to thank Top One for looking after me and for their top quality work, wish these guys were closer to where i live!

Well on the way for Honda Nationals

[Norm]

Yay!...awesomeness Steve! Great to hear its all coming on top and its putting a smile on your face.

[stevan]

Hey everyone!

Thought i would make a little progress post on some thoughts i have had lately. So having installed my AST dampers recently the springs have settled a touch and the car sits a bit lower, here's a few pictures of where it sits atm......







After the initial placebo effect had worn off from the AST dampers, i had noticed a few things on the car that i was not pleased with. During cornering the front end was pushing out and the steering was heavy and tried to fight back under load, the rear end was also a bit sloppy uncertain.

The cause of these things lies mostly in the fact that the car is now too low, upon inspection the front and rear control arms were both pointing upwards so instead of the subframe taking load on compression the load is causing the dampers to take more load which is inducing more body roll and loss of camber upon compression which is what i suspect is causing the front end to push out.

Heres a picture showing the rear control arm pointing up, ideally you want it parallel or pointing a bit downwards.



I can attribute the heavy steering to the steering rod angles moving further away from perpendicular to the strut, in hindsight i should have requested AST to lower the steering arm, hindsight is a bitch

At this stage i will probably raise the car about 15-20mm all around and possibly run some rake as well to help the rear end out. Its a shame because the car looks great atm but performance is key for me at the end of the day. For those interested i took measurements of all 4 jacking points so i can find a rough height to achieve parallel control arms.

Front left = 122mm
Front right = 122mm
Rear left = 124mm
Rear right: 120mm

The DC5 is an incredibly difficult car to set up, eventually it becomes an obsession but its an interesting challenge

Lastly i paid for one of these today which i will see in about 10 days or so, should stop the butt sliding hehe.

[Norm]

Nice!....i want a recaro spg now....

[stevan]

So did i, but i didnt want to pay $650 alone for shipping and 1k for the seat!! Got a great price on the Pro2000 so im happy I will be side mounting it using the Sparco rails, has 4 point height adjustment so should fine a nice comfy seating position

[edfung81]

Thanks Steve for these figures :
Front left = 122mm
Front right = 122mm
Rear left = 124mm
Rear right: 120mm

Just made me want to check my car right away, i will let you know what height its on, but going with your other pics i think my car is at the same height as yours at the moment

[edfung81]

only bother to check one side of the car, its currently at F:130mm R:160mm

[plAythiNG]

Good to see some pics Steve!

Nice seat - so now i finally seen it. I must have had connection/photo problems on my laptop and wasnt able to see!

That seat looks real good.

I wouldnt get another for the passenger, I reckon just on the drivers side especially with that aggressive looking seat, really means business. And yes this car means business!

Still deciding to reduce the front camber also Steve?

[stevan]

Thanks Steve for these figures :

Just made me want to check my car right away, i will let you know what height its on, but going with your other pics i think my car is at the same height as yours at the moment

No problems mate, i intended to measure the angle change when installing the RCA but measuring them accurately proved to be very difficult. Seems your car is at a decent height.

I think there may be a threshold height whereby the DC5 turns to shit (thats unless you use insane spring rates - Shifty eyes at Tom ), before i had the rear dampers installed the front was about 15mm higher and steering was noticeably lighter and didn't fight back nearly as much, car actually feels softer at the front with the stiffer springs so geometry is surely playing a part here. Also kind if wish i picked up a steering relocation bracket to help out the steering response. Will you be going to Honda Nationals?

Good to see some pics Steve!

Nice seat - so now i finally seen it. I must have had connection/photo problems on my laptop and wasnt able to see!

That seat looks real good.

I wouldnt get another for the passenger, I reckon just on the drivers side especially with that aggressive looking seat, really means business. And yes this car means business!

Still deciding to reduce the front camber also Steve?

Even if i wanted another one i can't really afford it atm on a student budget

I attribute my alignment already going out to the camber tops slipping, i will most likely dial it back to 2.5 when i raise it and get it realigned. Honda why didnt you bless us with Double Wishbone!!!!!!!!

[ChargeR]

Glad you finally got it all together, and experimenting with alignment is half the fun! Alignments are like skinny jeans you should change them every week or two.

My car handles very poorly, don't look to me for handling tips . Also steering brackets are as dubious as RCAs, some of the most well developed DC5s around, the Realtime Racing cars from the US, actually lower the inner end of the tie rods and fit spherical outer ends (to improve the range of angles before they bind I think). I would bet this is to improve the bump steer, which they probably measured unlike many internet machanics like me .

You could always buy a double wishbone car, but while you are buying a better car you should get a car that drives the correct end .

[stevan]

This guy, the definition of modesty! I Took down the rear rebound damping to 1 click from 8 like you suggested and it feels much better, more weight over the front wheels and less feeling of ducking over the rear from overdamping. Need a bit more high

Bump steer is something i will just have to live with, on the roads where i live you may end up in a ditch if you loosen the death grip on the wheel at times. RTR's DC5 is simply awesome, the rear custom LCA and revised pickup point design is so cool, i wonder why anyone hasnt made an adjustable height steering arm for our front struts though. My suggestion for the steering bracket was to lighten the steering up as i wasnt as lucky to have bottom tapered steering arms like some of these cool mugen N1 kids these days lol.

Another thing i have been pondering is using camber bolts instead of the tops for camber, i think my current wheel offset wont allow me to adjust much from the hub though as it will probably hit the strut, perhaps time for +22's

When i get a real man's job i may buy something that doesnt have funky reverse driven wheels haha, but i suspect the DC5 will always be there!