Camber Arms for DC2R

[freakygeek]

it is called a "tyre pyrometer"

http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?artid=16

Good article... I gained a lot from it.

[tinkerbell]

(just be aware it is a karting website...)

[VTECMACHINE]

i mean "less negative camber"

Less negative, taking it being a negative number into account. So going from -1 degree to say -2 degree? Or did you mean the opposite?

[tinkerbell]

FFS.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

less /lɛs/ adverb, a compar. of little with least as superl.
1. to a smaller extent, amount, or degree: less exact.
2. most certainly not (often prec. by much or still): He could barely pay for his own lodging, much less for that of his friend.
3. in any way different; other: He is nothing less than a thief.
–adjective, a compar. of little with least as superl.
4. smaller in size, amount, degree, etc.; not so large, great, or much: less money; less speed; less camber

cam·ber /ˈkæmbər/ –verb (used with object), verb (used without object)
1. to arch slightly; bend or curve upward in the middle.
–noun
2. a slight arching, upward curve, or convexity, as of the deck of a ship.
3. a slightly arching piece of timber.
4. Aeronautics. the rise of the curve of an airfoil, usually expressed as the ratio of the rise to the length of the chord of the airfoil.
5. Automotive. the outward or inward tilt of a wheel, called positive when the top tilts outward and negative when it tilts inward, measured as the angle, in degrees, between the vertical and a plane through the circumference of the tire.

to use a worked example:

a car with 0.10' negative camber,

it has "LESS camber" than a car that has 0.20' negative camber.


just remember that NO MODERN DAY CAR SHOULD BE OPERATING WITH POSITIVE STATIC CAMBER ANGLE and you will easily be able to work out what other people mean when the say "less camber"...

[VTECMACHINE]

But technically, -0.20' is LESS than -0.10'. Both of these numbers are < 0.

So by saying LESS NEGATIVE camber, it would make sense that you are trying to straighten the wheel to a more Positive camber than previously set. By saying LESS CAMBER, implied a lower number, and because the number is a negative number, it implies that you want - as you put it "More camber" (Ie: moving from -0.10' ==> -0.20').

[tinkerbell]

whatever Ric,

you really are just looking silly by going on about this...

[VTECMACHINE]

But its confusing... just clarifying. Silly or not, it's the truth.

[00dc2]

problem is that when people talk about having camber they practically always talk about negative camber

so when they say more or less camber they mean
more camber is more negative
less camber is less negative

tinks is quite right imo

[PolitoHood]

hahaha LOL

funny as...

but you both have a point.

Double negatives confuse the non logical

[tinkerbell]

But its confusing... just clarifying. Silly or not, it's the truth.

no, it is not confusing.

you are confused.

two completely different things...

[VTECMACHINE]

No i'm not confused. Just stirring the pot. Apologies.

[apparition]

Thanks guys for your opinions and thoughts. I'm still undecided whether to go ahead and get a camber kit for the DC2R. I'm thinking of just getting the Cusco Zero2 coilovers installed and see how it handles on the track.

I had the Cusco rear sway bar installed and tested it at Sandown and found it to oversteer more - ie. the back end comes out more when cornering fast. However with the Cusco rear sway bar installed, I found that it didn't roll as much when cornering and I could take corners at a faster speed.

I don't intend to lower my car by much as it will be daily driven (also my driveway is steep ) I might go and just install the rear camber arms to combat the -ve camber from lowering the car from stock height and see how that goes. Any one here had the Buddyclub front and rear camber kit installed on their DC2R? And is it necessary to have a camber kit after having coilovers installed, since the car is used mostly as a daily and occasionl track use?

I'm still deciding, as some ppl tell me that it's more important to have the camber arms in the front rather than the rear. What are your thoughts? Thanks again for your opinions - I'm still very new to all of this!

[tinkerbell]

installing something to fix something will fix that thing. that is all.

if the front camber requires "fixing" then you need a front camber arm that is adjustable.

if the rear camber requires "fixing" then you need a rear camber arm that is adjustable.

depending how pedantic you are, depends how you determine whether something needs to be "fixed".

for me, i consider replacing tyres after 20'000km to be acceptable if aggressive alignment settings achieve greater driving satisfaction...

[tinkerbell]

And is it necessary to have a camber kit after having coilovers installed, since the car is used mostly as a daily and occasionl track use?

basically, no - it is not necessary.

[e240]

Our testing also confirm Tink's tests

We moved from a thicker rear sway bar to a thinner one to address a snappy rear end issue (Oversteer). We also experimented with removing the front sway bar (which is akin to increasing the rear stiffness) to address understeer and experienced a tremendoous amount of snap oversteer.

no shit.

let me tell you a story:

i won the NSW supersprint championship last year, in class 3B - prior to which i *trialed* many things to improve my speed around a race track.

during testing - it was VERY OBVIOUS that any increase in the rear swaybar rate (by adjusting it to "harder") would make the car oversteer more and generally be more agressive....

pretty good correlation with the theory.

EDIT:

the only reason i am picking this up is that apparition has asked for advice on camber... your advice is quite specific to your individual situation and the effects you are describing are probably due more to "other factors" than the ones you indicate that they are due to...