Camber Arms for DC2R

[00dc2]

i agree that harder sways in the rear make you oversteer more but i cant seem to picture why this is so.

probably it makes the actual weight transfer easier to control as the susp isnt moving so much with thicker sways.. and the tyre contact patch isnt changing so much as the camber changes less so more predictable???

[VTECMACHINE]

I also had more camber on the rear than the front for the civic and it still oversteered like crazy.

Did you mean LESS camber on the rear?? In terms of the number being a negative number.

Grrr... this is why i said don't listen to me... but I shared my experience with Daniel.

This thread is about camber... lets start another thread about swaybars.

[Chi]

You're the one that brang in the topic of swaybars first lol.

I had more minus camber on the rear than the front and it still oversteered.

But its not just swaybars and camber that suggest how the car handles at the end of the day.

Things like spring rates, damper, tyre quality, tyre pressures, weight distribution etc all need to be accounted for.

[tinkerbell]

i agree that harder sways in the rear make you oversteer more but i cant seem to picture why this is so.

probably it makes the actual weight transfer easier to control as the susp isnt moving so much with thicker sways.. and the tyre contact patch isnt changing so much as the camber changes less so more predictable???

the thicker rear sway bar is more ridgid so it lifts up the inside wheel. thus less grip, thus oversteer.

is that hard to picture?

try to imagine a 10mm one, vs a 50mm swaybar....

[tinkerbell]

read up on what the late Mr Smith says:

http://www.google.com.au/search?num=...G=Search&meta=

[VTECMACHINE]

yeah Chi you're right. All other factors need to be thought of too. I bought up sway bars, because he mentioned it. But it's primarily about camber.

Yeah I get that theory too... but I have made up my mind, that a too stiff rear end compared with a not so stiff front end will induce understeer.

Each to their own... what ever works. LOL. I give up. haha.

I just want to see what Tinks says about camber though.

[tinkerbell]

I just want to see what Tinks says about camber though.

well, we have to paitently wait for apparition to reply to post #2 then...

[VTECMACHINE]

read up on what the late Mr Smith says:

http://www.google.com.au/search?num=...G=Search&meta=

My car is weird it does all sorts of things differently to what I have read.

[Elwood]

Yeh Rix, even though i had some neg camber due to my ride-height, i can't say i noticed more understeer. Although, my rear tyres were pretty much worn out - so maybe it countered it?

Im good enough, or smart enough to be able to pick up the slight differences that a small amount of camber or 1-2 psi of tyre pressure makes in handling.. Not yet anyways

[freakygeek]

no, i dont.

every theory i know says larger rear sway bar increase tendency to understeer...

every theory i know says less camber on the rear will increase tendency to understeer.

haha Tinks, now you are confusing people

Larger rear swaybar will obviously increase oversteer.

Tinks, just to clarify - when you say "less camber" do you mean "more negative camber"?

Tinkerbell will probably remember the rear tyre wear on my DZ02G's after EC on Australia Day last year - the inside 1" of the tread was untouched!

However the car felt balanced and turned well. I have a feeling that if I had increased the -ve camber on the rear, I would have created understeer as I would have increased the grip in the rear too much. Obviously there would be other changes I could make to then rectify that problem (stiffer rear swaybar, different springs/dampers, adjust tyre pressure) but it worked effectively the way it was, just at the expense of even tyre wear.

Basically all we are doing with camber is optimise the tyres contact patch on the road when cornering. It is definitely possible to have a situation where increasing -ve camber creates less grip. A good way to tell if your camber is somewhere near correct in a trackday situation is to look at how the tyre is wearing, better still, use a laser thermometer across the tyres tread and see where the heat is concentrated.

[benson]

what i've understand from our EG ( idont know how much of this would relate to an DC2R) is that by running -ve 2.5icnh camber in the front and -ve 1 in the rear the car handles great through the turns, especially through turn 1 @ EC doing around 170kph. Ideally you want the rear end to kick out, but not kick out where you oversteer and spin out. Most of this is in the wheel alignment!

We are running Skunk 2 Pro Plus Camber Kit, works a treat, no problems so far. the car has ITR Front and rear sway bars.

[ChargeR]

In response to apparition, I concur with vtecmachine. Lower the car until you get the camber you want at the front and then adjust the rear camber to get the desired handling behaviour using rear camber arms. This avoids any interesting bump steer behaviour that I have head of front camber arms causing.

A good way to tell if your camber is somewhere near correct in a trackday situation is to look at how the tyre is wearing, better still, use a laser thermometer across the tyres tread and see where the heat is concentrated.

A pin type thermocouple that sticks into the carcass of the tyre is better because by the time you make it into the pits the surface temp will not be a true indication of what the tyre is doing, the alternative is accurate laser thermometers set up to monitor the inner, middle, and outer part of the tyres in real time on the track.

[freakygeek]

A pin type thermocouple that sticks into the carcass of the tyre is better because by the time you make it into the pits the surface temp will not be a true indication of what the tyre is doing, the alternative is accurate laser thermometers set up to monitor the inner, middle, and outer part of the tyres in real time on the track.

Nice.. yeah. I knew someone could elaborate better than I

[tinkerbell]

haha Tinks, now you are confusing people

Larger rear swaybar will obviously increase oversteer.

Tinks, just to clarify - when you say "less camber" do you mean "more negative camber"?

i mean "less negative camber"

[tinkerbell]

Nice.. yeah. I knew someone could elaborate better than I

it is called a "tyre pyrometer"

http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?artid=16