The CR-X

[ChargeR]

im aiming for last place in group at h nats
1:50s, cant wait!

Ha don't sell yourself short bloke.

Nice update, good to see it passing your expectations on the lap times!

A few questions if you feel like sharing....

Are you still running the Hawk Dtc 60/30's? How do you feel about them now you've run them a bit with the current setup, I hear good feedback but are quite hard wearing on rotors.

And what was the issue with the Al exhaust?

Yes I still have the very same DTC60/30s that I put in the car after I bought it years ago, and they're still only about 1/3 worn. Anecdotally it seems like the rotor wear at track temperatures is okay, but when they're cold on the street they're very abrasive on the discs. I can hear them grinding away as I come to a stop, and there is visible iron dust on the wheels after a short cold drive. When I next have the wheels off I'll measure the disc thickness to better quantify it for you.

On track the pads are good. Very consistent even for long sessions, and no sign of pad fade which is an excellent result considering I'm still on the stock 262mm discs. Looking at the discs after the Winton event though it was evident that there was some uneven pad transfer occurring as the discs looked a bit blotchy rather than a uniform finish, so it's possible they're getting close to the limit of their working temperature range. The only change I'd make to the pads is I'd prefer if they were slightly lower friction coefficient, as if I'm not careful when getting on the brakes it is easy to lock a tyre, though when I change to a higher grip tyre than the AD08R that will probably no longer be an issue.

On the exhaust, one of my very roughly made temporary hangers broke, and I was driving the car on to the hoist to repair it. The piping got caught between the car and the ramp of the hoist, and it was bent/crushed as I drove forward.

Well done Tom!

Awesome update charger, quick little beast.

Thanks guys.

[RC_dc2]

Ha don't sell yourself short bloke.



Yes I still have the very same DTC60/30s that I put in the car after I bought it years ago, and they're still only about 1/3 worn. Anecdotally it seems like the rotor wear at track temperatures is okay, but when they're cold on the street they're very abrasive on the discs. I can hear them grinding away as I come to a stop, and there is visible iron dust on the wheels after a short cold drive. When I next have the wheels off I'll measure the disc thickness to better quantify it for you.

On track the pads are good. Very consistent even for long sessions, and no sign of pad fade which is an excellent result considering I'm still on the stock 262mm discs. Looking at the discs after the Winton event though it was evident that there was some uneven pad transfer occurring as the discs looked a bit blotchy rather than a uniform finish, so it's possible they're getting close to the limit of their working temperature range. The only change I'd make to the pads is I'd prefer if they were slightly lower friction coefficient, as if I'm not careful when getting on the brakes it is easy to lock a tyre, though when I change to a higher grip tyre than the AD08R that will probably no longer be an issue.

On the exhaust, one of my very roughly made temporary hangers broke, and I was driving the car on to the hoist to repair it. The piping got caught between the car and the ramp of the hoist, and it was bent/crushed as I drove forward.





Thanks guys.

I'm impressed you're still on the 262mm rotors and not running into temperature problems. I guess your lighter chassis is helping compared to my dc2, have you weighed your current setup?

I was on the verge of getting the dtc60's before I got my latest set of rc09's to try with the new rotor setup. I did hear they were very abrasive when cold, not sure whether the next step down dtc50's are worth trying due to the lower temp rating.

[ChargeR]

I'm impressed you're still on the 262mm rotors and not running into temperature problems. I guess your lighter chassis is helping compared to my dc2, have you weighed your current setup?

I was on the verge of getting the dtc60's before I got my latest set of rc09's to try with the new rotor setup. I did hear they were very abrasive when cold, not sure whether the next step down dtc50's are worth trying due to the lower temp rating.

Yep I've weight the car at 878 kg before with about half a tank, right now it's probably gained 5-10kg in the exhaust though!

I'd definitely recommend trying the Hawk pads, though at the moment I'm thinking of doing the opposite and trying some Project Mu pads when my current stock of Hawks run out.

H Nationals 2016

A belated update on how I went at H Nationals in the CR-X, I've been a bit busy since then and completely forgot I hadn't updated my thread! The event was well subscribed with all the regulars, and there was a healthy contingent of guys that came down from NSW to support the event which was great to see. I entered the CR-X despite the winner of Class 3 being a nearly foregone conclusion, with the unstoppable PB machine Peter Nguyen in his S2000 in the same class.

As mentioned in my previous post, after the EXE event 4th gear was broked-ed, so of course I waited until Wednesday before H Nats to pull it out, replaced the synchro and re-assembled it on Thursday night, then re-installed it on Friday night with help from DCW. Thanks bloke. In the process discovered that with a bit of wiggling the box will come out with the motor still in the car.

The weather started off wet and cold, and it took some time for the track to dry off and start warming up. This caught out plenty of folks, with more than a few ending up in the mud. Luckily the CR-X was running in Group D which was filled with more experienced track drivers with people mostly driving within their limits, with just a few instances of drivers that couldn't see in their rear view mirrors .

It took some time to get comfortable in the car on the lower grip morning surface, and my times hovered around the 38-40s for the first half of the day. I was running without the wing too, since I was too lazy to bring it and bolt it on at the track. After settling in toward the end of the day I ended on a 1:37.57 on the last lap of the day, a little way off the best time I ran at the EXE event earlier in the year.

Not discouraged though, I'll be back again soon to chase after that elusive 1:35s street tyre lap time, without much in the way of further changes. Some alignment tweaks and a lot more seat time is all it will take. After that I might bolt on a proper set of tyres and delve a bit lower into the 30s.



Lap times for the CR-X for the day:

1:48.3180
1:59.7330
1:46.9940
1:42.1110
1:40.6440
1:54.7250
1:47.9310
1:40.2550
1:41.4450
1:39.6660
1:39.1140
2:01.4240
1:48.3150
1:39.2550
1:50.9960
1:42.3230
1:38.1870
2:14.5250
1:40.7180
5:51.5440
1:51.1960
1:41.2990
1:39.4180
1:48.2410
1:41.9180
1:37.5700

Take a look at our blog for a write up on some of the other entrants, and some more photos: Honed

Here's a few more photos from the event, thanks to Folk's Photography, check out their full gallery at: Folks Photography

[yellowdc2r]

liiiiiiiiiike

[ChargeR]

liiiiiiiiiike

Thanks!

Prep for WTAC started this evening after work. First up I wanted to tweak the caster, as I'd only roughly estimated the radius rod lengths when I initially installed the traction bar resulting in more caster than I'd like and hadn't bothered to adjust them since. I dialed it back a bit by lengthening the rods, but I'll have to wait until I can run it down to the alignment shop before I can confirm the actual values.


With that done I ran through setting up the the bump steer, since when I put the tie rod ends in initially in a rush I only did some very rough measurements. I setup my backyard style bump steer gauges, and went to work:





Here's the tie rod ends, set with 2 of the possible 7 spacers beneath the rod end, corresponding to roughly 5mm higher than a stock tie rod end.





The graph below compares the tie rod end in near stock location, with it in a raised location by approximately 5mm. The near stock location gave a large amount of toe in with bump travel, and based on the second set of measurements I think I'll go one spacer higher on the tie rod end to get moderate toe out in bump, tending toward zero/slight toe in at the extremity of bump travel (about 250mm hub centre to guard is where my car bottoms out)





Also found that the rod ends on the front end of the radius rods are nearly running out of travel at full bump, so I'll adjust them slightly tomorrow night, put one more spacer in the tie rod ends, then put it back together.

[ChargeR]

Sorry for the lack of updates, busy month and a bit, but a few things have been happening on the CR-X as most here would know.


In the lead up to World Time Attack I decided to tackle a handful smaller jobs that I'd been putting off. Budget and time constraints meant no major upgrades for this years event, but there was still time to refurbish the front end and correct a couple of other issues. I find reliability is essential for a fun weekend at the track.


I had a spare set of CR-X SiR front knuckles sent to me by a Japanese gentleman, after having no luck sourcing any locally. Despite me only wanting the knuckles, the kind fellow carefully packed up the whole front suspension bar the shocks and springs, so I've got spares of everything now. As a bonus these front knuckles are from an ABS model complete with sensors, useful for a traction control system if this build escalates that far!





To freshen up the knuckles I'd ordered a bunch of parts, including OEM hubs, bearings, lower ball joints, ARP extended studs and a set of Hawk DTC60 pads.


The previous pads still had plenty of life left, but with the single piston sliding calipers the pads always get tapered wear. Even slight pad taper with the dinky little stock calipers results in a long pedal lacking confidence, and a fresh set of pads and discs before heading to a high speed track like Sydney Motorsport Park is cheap insurance against brake issues.





I gave the knuckles a coat of paint, and pressed the ARP studs into the hubs. Then I got the knuckles all assembled, taking great care to preserve my fresh paint job since no-one's got time for a 48 hour cure time.





Front knuckles installed in the car, with the correct quantity of spacers beneath the tie rod end on our tie rod end kit to correct the bumps steer, as I measured last time I was working on the car.





The front tow hooks would have to make way for the splitter brackets, so I added a tab on the forward face of my "traction bar" to allow me to bolt on a tow strap that found in the corner of the workshop. I don't remember buying it, but that's not the first time that's happened.





While I had the TIG fired up I welded the hexes on to my radius rods for easier caster adjustment without having to resort to vice grips. They copped a fresh coat of paint while I was there. Once I stop cutting and welding things in the front suspension, if ever, I'll pull it all off again and get it powdercoated.








With all that boring stuff done I moved on to the most exciting job on the list; fitting up the new OEM hatch struts I'd acquired at great expense. My days of getting hit in the head with the hatch are over.





Last on the list I constructed a splitter to suit the earlier manufactured brackets. This is just Version 1, but the blade is 6mm marine ply, with a doubled up section along the forward edge and some 40x25mm aluminium channels added for transverse stiffness. The end result is quite lightweight, and while I wouldn't call it quick release, it's an easy process to get it on the car, just requiring some contortion and patience.





Next update I'll give a bit of a run down of the WTAC event.

[ChargeR]

World Time Attack


After doing all the work in the previous post I had a good nights sleep then headed up to Sydney for World Time Attack. I gave the car a wash before we hit the road, it's pretty photogenic when the bonnet is not in the picture:





The drive up was about as enjoyable you'd expect in a car with a 3" exhaust and no interior, but it was uneventful and we made it to Sydney in time to get rejected by security at the gate to Sydney Motorsport Park, since they didn't get the memo about letting competitors park up the night before. No big deal though, I just headed to the apartment where we were staying and parked there. Can't imagine what all the other guys that trailered their cars there did, since Sydney roads are a nightmare.





Thursday


WTAC is a 3 day event for most, with a dedicated practice day on the Thursday, with plenty of time on track since half the competitors are usually elsewhere fixing their cars or doing whatever it is that non-Honda drivers do.





The first session was spent bedding in the brakes and getting familiar with SMSP again, it went well and the car seemed to be more stable than last year with the newly fitted front splitter. In the second session I was just starting to get up to pace, then after heading through pit lane for a quick check of tyre pressures, gave it a bit too much throttle re-entering the track and the resulting wheel hop popped the slip join apart in the exhaust which meant a missed session while I fixed that.





Finally in the last session I'd built up a bit of confidence in the car, and nothing had fallen off in the previous session, so started to push a bit harder which resulted in the fastest lap of the day of a 1:49.6. This was already 5 tenths quicker than last years best time and a promising early result.


Friday




Friday is the first day of the main public event, the pits are noticeably busier with the addition of all the spectators in their flat brimmed hats and fake Takata or Bride backpacks. I knew that the morning session was going to be our best opportunity to set a good time with temperatures warming up compared to the day before. I managed to improve in a couple of areas, getting down to a 1:48.9.

The afternoon sessions were marred by other competitors with either poor situational awareness, mechanical issues, or impacts with solid track side items, so I just focused on improving in sections of the track where I could, particularly the high speed T1 to T2 section, and staying out of trouble everywhere else.

Then it was beer time:




Saturday

I took it pretty easy in the first session just wanting to get back up to speed after maybe a few too many beers the night before. In the second session I went out at the rear of the pack, ran a lap to search for some space on track, but running into plenty of traffic I came in to the pits to wait for some clear track. The strategy worked well, and I was able time it so I exited the pits with nothing but open track in front of me bar one back marker that I managed to sneak past without losing a lot of time. With a clear run at it I managed to put together the best lap of the event a 1:47.7. 2.5 seconds faster than last year with basically no performance upgrades to the car, bar the splitter, on the same beaten up set of AD08R so I was pretty happy with that.



Our goal for next year will be to take another 3 seconds off and run a 1:44.X lap. For reference the winner of my class in an EK Civic with a Rotrex'ed K24 on 295/225 tyres put down a 1:39 lap time, so I've still got a way to go, but I'm in reach of being the fastest naturally aspirated car in class.

2015 vs 2016 Best Lap Comparison
Below is a comparison of the data from the fastest laps of 2015 and 2016. Click the image to get the full size graph.






Looking at the data comparison, there's a few things I've noticed:

- T1 minimum speed is up 10km/h to 175 km/h and the braking point has been pushed back 25m to beyond the 100m mark, though there's definitely gains to be made in the braking zone here by braking a little later and trailing the brakes further into the corner.

- The exit and run through T2 to T3 was better this year, picking up nearly 10 km/h before braking into T5. I chose to short shift to 4th and focus on positioning the car as far to left of track at the exit of 2 as possible to improve the line through T4. Mid corner speeds through T4 and T5 are improved, but the exit from T5 isn't much better probably due to running out on to the south circuit pit exit and unsettling the car.

- Speed over corporate hill (T14) has improved, and a bit more bravery at T16 has resulted in better speed there.

Track map for reference:

[yellowdc2r]

just beautiful

[mrntegra]

Great work mate! One day I'd love to see and hear that beast in the flesh!

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[Toddxxx]

Always nice to read updates on the car tom

Plans to get the car into the 1:44s?

[ChargeR]

just beautiful

Great work mate! One day I'd love to see and hear that beast in the flesh!

Thanks guys! Yep I definitely need to get out and about in the car a lot more, it seems I've only really driven it to the track and back. Needs some work to make it more street friendly!

Always nice to read updates on the car tom

Plans to get the car into the 1:44s?

Thanks bloke. Rough plans as follows:

- A touch more power and RPM. I'm going to rev the motor to 8000RPM (currently 7600) set up a flex fuel sensor and run E85, and finally get it tuned. Estimate 5-10kW from these changes. At the moment I was just touching the rev limiter in 6th at the end of the main straight at SMSP, with stock DC5R ratios and 205/50R15 tyre.


- Increase in tyre size. More lateral grip, increased diameter and increased heat capacity should improve a bunch of issues. Unfortunately means a big jump in diameter .


- Slightly less weight. Main targets here are to make a new bonnet, and re-do the wiring with all the disused items removed.


- A bunch more testing to refine the driver and setup.


- A new fuel tank to prevent fuel starvation. At the moment I can't run below about 2/3 to 3/4 of a tank before I experience fuel starvation, so I'd like to go to a custom tank most likely using a Holley Hydramat. This should allow me to run with substantially less fuel, and the tank will save some weight. That combined with the bonnet and wiring should get me down 20 or 30kg.

[Toddxxx]

Good plans for the year

Keen to see ecu/e85 and what it does. I will finally be tuning my car this year as well.
Surely you should be expecting more of a power increase though. You would know a lot more than me but I'd have to say 10-15 peak and probably around 20 midrange?
What power do you currently make?

Also funny you mention the fuel starvation issue as I was talking to a couple of friends about this the other day. It's weird because they pretty much have the same level s2000 as mine but all talk about experiencing fuel starvation at smsp especially at turn 2 and I've literally run down to the fuel light and have never had an issue which I find a little weird.
Is fuel starvation a common issue for the crx/civics as well or are you finding it's just a problem with your car?
I ask as I was expecting to have to do something with my car to help solve this issue after hearing others stories at smsp but still to this day there's been no issues.

[ChargeR]

Awesome retrospective from WTAC! #worldtomattack

Thanks, I'll try to keep the thread more up to date from now on!

Good plans for the year

Keen to see ecu/e85 and what it does. I will finally be tuning my car this year as well.
Surely you should be expecting more of a power increase though. You would know a lot more than me but I'd have to say 10-15 peak and probably around 20 midrange?
What power do you currently make?

Also funny you mention the fuel starvation issue as I was talking to a couple of friends about this the other day. It's weird because they pretty much have the same level s2000 as mine but all talk about experiencing fuel starvation at smsp especially at turn 2 and I've literally run down to the fuel light and have never had an issue which I find a little weird.
Is fuel starvation a common issue for the crx/civics as well or are you finding it's just a problem with your car?
I ask as I was expecting to have to do something with my car to help solve this issue after hearing others stories at smsp but still to this day there's been no issues.

I'm a conservative guy, so 5 or 10 kW would be nice. I'd be happy with a few more though. The car made 142kW at the wheels recently (I'll put up an update on that soon), and on the same day a stock bottom end K24A3 with bigger TB, E85 and cams made just over 160, so around 150 seems achievable for my car on that dyno. If I can get the car down to 850kg with 150kW at the wheels that's 5.7kg/kW so power to weight would be on par with say 200+kW at the wheels in an S2000, or 250+ for an Evo.

Fuel surge is a known problem on the EF/ED, plenty of track and auto x guys in the US experience it so it's not all that surprising. It's just irritating to be carrying all that fuel, weight and be risking breaking the motor so that's why I've pushed it to the top of the list of things to fix.

[eskimo_firefighter]

If I can get the car down to 850kg with 150kW at the wheels that's 5.7kg/kW so power to weight would be on par with say 200+kW at the wheels in an S2000, or 250+ for an Evo.

This just made me realise how slow my S2000 is, which is slightly depressing. Haha.

[iwearmoccos]

If I can get the car down to 850kg with 150kW at the wheels that's 5.7kg/kW so power to weight would be on par with say 200+kW at the wheels in an S2000, or 250+ for an Evo.

I can't wait until you put some full size tyres on this and you're chasing Jim Jim around!