BRAKE PROBLEMS plz help!

[itsuka]

hi guys

went down afterwork yesterday and we fully bleed the system out again but still the same results...checked for leaks as well but still no result...

we called up VACC and a few brake specialist guys and they mentioned there might be a procedure for bleeding the ABS so currently waiting on more information about that...

i am dropping the car off again tonight and leaving it there, he is going to take the enitire thing apart and start again...

will definately keep things posted once we start getting some results...

pretty much all the seals and booster should be in working conditions because i was driving around with cooked brakes for a few months before changing these parts. the brake pedal was as firm as ever...the only difference was the car didn't stop as well as it did before i cooked the brakes (obviously) and there were no leaks then either...

well got my fingers crossed!

[tinkerbell]

no.

no special proceedure for bleeding ABS in teh DC2R

sounds like you mech. has got air into Master Cylinder - just need to "bench bleed" it and it will be fine...

[kavehman]

how do you bench bleed ?

[itsuka]

hi guys just an update

my mechanic took it to 3 different brake specialist places today where they took EVERYTHING apart and drained and bleed the brakes over and over again...but found nothing wrong...

all the 3 different shops were adamant that air got into the ABS as the underlining problem, diagrams were sent back and forth regarding the ABS design but NO one want to touch the ABS system. They all strongly suggested they the car goes back to HONDA to bleed the ABS.

They said it is rare for air to get into the ABS but when it does occur it is fairly hard to get it out and it's best for honda to do it.

so now i got my car booked in on Monday...=(

fingers crossed it will get fixed!

[tinkerbell]

THERE IS AIR IN THE MASTER CYLINDER AND IT NEEDS TO BE BENCH BLED.

print that and send it to your mechanic...

also print this pic:



it is from the DC2 factory Honda workshop manual...

[tinkerbell]

so now i got my car booked in on Monday...=(

or ---- bring it to me and i can fix it in my backyard...

i am up Hornsby way...

1 six pack of import (prefer Becks or Stella) per hour service time...

[tinkerbell]

how do you bench bleed ?

run the MC outlets back into the MC resoviour... and cycle it through untill you see no bubbles...

i use two old brake lines with plastic hose on them,

(no need to remove the MC from the car either...)

[tinkerbell]

itsuka - please fill out your profile - location and car please...

[itsuka]

Hi tinkerbell firstly thanks for your help!

i've talked to my mechanic and he said he has done that, not only once but also with the brake specialist people as well but time and time again NO air.

hey said that the guys at ABS where he was at had a very similar problem with a Holden and while ago and they spent 5 days bleeding the thing with no result, they eventually lost the customer and the customer took the car back to holden and fixed the problem (air was in the ABS)

my mechanic said that the honda workshop manual is not wrong but it is NOT catered for not normal circumstances

i'll guess we will know if my mechanic is right or not after honda hopefully rectifies the problem...

[ewendc2r]

interesting .. I just bled my brakes (installed those braided goodridge lines) and i noticed they were a bit soft. I know the reservoir got low, so possible have to bleed the MC argh -- They bite fine, just more pedal action. Thanks for the heads up on easy way of bleeding the MC tinkerbell.

[itsuka]

UPDATE

Honda just called me back and said that they have bled the system out only to find a few small air bubbles coming out. They said they used a sequence to bleed the ABS as well, RL, FL, FR, RR ….which is the same as normal bleeding...=( nothing different to what we have already done….

Anyhow they believe the problem is called pedal creeping which is due to the seals in the MC over expanding. This will cause an internal leak which will cause the brake pedal to slowly drop to the floor once pressure is placed on it.

They recommended that I completely replace the MC $510 including labour, I asked for a reconditioning kit, but he said the labour cost of taking it apart and putting it back together will roughly be the same and I will end up with just an older unit.

I also asked if they can guarantee if this is the problem, and if they replaced the MC and it didn't fix the problem will they be liable...basically I expect them to reply as most be companies would “we can only speculate the problem and suggest a solution, but we cannot guarantee, especially with all the non-genuine parts”

i told him that i didn't have this pedal creeping problem before the change of the brake system, and asked him what could have caused it? he said well most of the time this happens to much older cars...as he knows i've tracked it once and he was quick to put his finger on that one, and also he mention maybe it is the type of fluid i've placed in it... (AP 5.1 - it is not synthentic)

Not having much of a choice I’ve told them to go ahead…FINGERS CROSSED…

[DC2RKID]

i suspected thats what was happenen from the start man..usually when the master is gone u give the brake pedal a quik stab and its hard as rock and then u apply lightly and it creeps ...masters aint all that hard to pull apart they dont even have to hone it ! ask around before u lash out man...even if u buy the master and take it bak to the ppl that did ur car in first place and point the finger at them :P u might be lucky enough to get it done cheaper hehe

[tinkerbell]

Hi tinkerbell firstly thanks for your help!

i've talked to my mechanic and he said he has done that, not only once but also with the brake specialist people as well but time and time again NO air.

and

Honda just called me back and said that they have bled the system out only to find a few small air bubbles coming out.

hmmmm?

so the pedal is still soft? or harder now they have bled more air out?

[itsuka]

hey DC2RKID i've called around most places i've called don't want to give me a confirmed quote until i've seen they have seen the car and not sure how long the reconditioning kits will take to order...i just want the car back on the road...

tinderbell to be fair on the previous mechanic the air bubbles that came out when honda did was so small it didn't make much of a difference, the peddle is still soft and sinks to the floor according to honda (sorry i didn't make that clear to begin with)

well i guess i will know by tonight when i get my car back if this has fixed the problem or not...

thanks again guys!

[tinkerbell]

you never told us the pedal sinks to the floor...