S2000 - My Story

[Apu]

"and a kid coming out in 2 weeks."

I take it this is your first, Alex? Congratulations!

You have two weeks to spend without guilt...after that it's diapers, then formula.

[plAythiNG]

yes, our first. Thanks Bryan!

yeah got a bit of cash to splash before the piggybank runs dry!

Need to get the car finished asap!

[Apu]

I slowed down on cars after my son was born, then stopped for 7 years when we moved back to Australia (which also coincided with my second child).

I came back with a vengeance about 4 years ago, getting the MX5 and then the DC2R, and only had a hiccup when we had our third child.

Them kids...they're expensive! Enjoy what time you have left because your wife and child will need a lot of your time!

[plAythiNG]

yeah i know. we should have a CITR family track day!

How old are your kids Bryan?

[Apu]

A CITR track day is a great idea! I've been asking around to see if anyone is interested in another Honda Nationals...haven't had one for a few years!

My kids are 13, 10 and...8 months. Yup...we were both just as surprised.

[plAythiNG]

ahh nice!

yeah plan is for us to have three too! But gotta get this S2K done lol

[Perry]

You got 2 weeks left to get everything done Alex!!!! quick quick

[plAythiNG]

Thought I might do a memory dump and just document some thoughts in case I forget RE the oil cooler setup.

As mentioned several pages ago the only hurdle in getting the oil cooler completed is how I am going to tap oil temp/pressure. Now it looks like the best setup so far is running those two pressure gauge fittings and then tapping from there. I will be making a change, and reading oil temp from the IN (to cooler) line. This is opposed to original setup of tapping it on RETURN (to block) line. The interwebs is divided on this setup where it is pretty evenly split for which side they prefer. The reason for the change is I want to read the oil temp leaving the block, as it is the hottest temp. And eventually the data will show the oil cooler working etc.

So the hardware setup shows everything will work, however hoping the gauges will work. I have received confirmation and found data that the Mocal sandwich plate (200F) will allow some flow of oil through the lines even though temp is below 200F. However I cannot see any commentary regarding data of oil temp/pressure with this setup. So the plumbing will all work etc, just hoping the data is not lagged.

As i am so woried about this setup, I began looking at back up solutions. As mentioned earlier I am not exactly a fan of tapping from the oil pan primarily because if something on the road collects the cable and rips it, I could be in trouble... However this looks to be my only choice. I also have a fumoto easy drain sump plug installed, and I wish to retain this. As I believe there would be increased wear on the oil temp fitting/wiring with continous loosening/tightening. Hence I think if you are going to utilise the sump plug bung for tapping oil temp, if I use the fumois to drian plug, this will mean no loosening/tightenting of the fittings!

Since the metrics of the sump is M14 x 1.50, I began searching for a male/female fitting with 1/8NPT fitting. Easily found one here

Will still use that spacer fitting received previously so that isnt a waste.

grrrr, i dont even know why I am thinking of the back up plan, hopeuflly the initial proposed option works, and functions well!

[plAythiNG]

Post 120

Post 173

Critique possible oil temp sensor install

Thought I might compile the two larger than normal posts, and the thread created in the technical section for quick referencing.

So spent the long weekend finalising the final bracket required to securely mount the oil cooler.

when I say finalise, it was more like playing words with friends, and letting shak play around with a 3mm thick metal strip, and get all the bends and twists perfectly right!





We wanted the bracket to mount the other Earls bracket in the center for balance, and bent and twisted it to the nearest bolt, which is a chassis bolt on the driver's side.

Here it is all mounted:







Very secure, very happy with the install so far. You might notice that the earls bracket that's mounted to the center of the car, is mounted on the rear side of the oil cooler, and on the custom bracket side, its attached to the cooler on the front. It was setup like this, just in case I ever need to run a block off plate in front of the cooler in the future, it is easy to attach a block off plate where I can use a wingnut/bolt for quick and easy replace/reinstall. Glad I also went the all black option, as it looks really stealth like too!

As mentioned I changed the top fitting to a 45deg fitting so it can direct the hose straight towards the opening on the driver's side of the radiator. Unfortunately due to the AC hardline a 45deg fitting wont clear the hardline. Taped up these fittings with some electrical tape until I get the hoses installed.

We also installed the sandwich plate from Mocal so that all is left is getting some hoses measured for mounting.

[plAythiNG]

As mentioned in the initial post, and the other posts following, the biggest headfuck of this exercise was the perfect setup for tapping the sensors for oil temp and pressure. Due to the lengthy time for this install, I unfrotuantely had too much time to consider this and that. I was doubting if the pressure gauge adapters would work based on flow. Yes the Mocal unit does allow around 5% flow of oil for circulation through the cooler. Not to mention if this setup did fail, it'll be expensive as I would have 2 x gauge fittings, and two lengths of hose too short and thus all completely redundant. I then looked at the option of installing a similar pressure gauge fitting in between the sump, and using my current fumoto drain valve in the attempt of just screwing it all in once, and once only. I guess this setup was not favoured upon in the technical section of this forum, and I guess everyone was right, where the sump would feel the impact of all those vibrations, and instead of just one fitting, there would be two fittings, plug the weight of the sensor too... probably increasing chances of the fitting cracking the sump over time. Oil Pressure was relatively striaght forward to address. The Yanks all remove the oem oil pressure sensor, install a smaller fuel line with fittings on either end to thread, and mount aftermarket oil pressure sensor. Everyone said the thread on the block is BSP, but seen mixed information advising it was BSP Parallel or BSP Tapered. Even looking at the part number to order, some webpages said it was BSPP, some said it was BSPT. As the Yanks all use sensors that are all makes except Defi, their threads are all 1/8NPT, hence the reason why they need a fuel line with adapter fitting on one end to suit NPT. I did find one post on s2ki where this bloke used Defi sensors and said he was able to plug it in with no issues. FINALLY I found an example of what I wanted to do. Unfortunately after PM him, he must no longer own the S2000 and ignored my PM. So I was still left in the air with no confirmed info. What I did know was it had to be BSP Parallel as I am sure if it was Parallel, then either parellel or tapered fittings would fit!

Cleaned up the Defi oil pressure sensor, added some new thread tape and screwed it in. Installed and no issues! Oil pressure is as it was back when it was on the sandwich plate. No issues what so ever. No leaks.

Oil Temp, I have decided that I cannot have everything in life, and have to make sacrifices, out goes the fumoto drain valve, and I picked up a SARD fitting that is m14x1.5 MALE, and 1/8PT (otherwise known as BSPT) FEMALE



Will install this later today and report on the differences if any between reading engine oil temp at the sump and at the sandwich plate.

[plAythiNG]

Picked up some more engine oil through a sale on the weekend!



Got my built diff back from Sam at Neat!

-Full rebuild option with the oem bearings and seals replaced, j;s racing solid collar, Comptech reinforced bearing caps, ARP hardware, shot peening/ISF treatment of all gears, 4.77 final drive, OS Giken LSD, Spoon diff casing.

Best investment/gamble of a blown diff ever for $150! lol. Cant wait to install this later this year!

I also ordered a WASP Composites front splitter. This then means my initial place to install the dual catch cans may not be ideal as with the splitter, I wont have a way to drain any caught oil stiraght down. Have ordered a draining kit and more so wanted teh dual hose bracket ditting from Saikou Michi!

[plAythiNG]

Soooooo, after the Australia Day, I went back to Earls, measured up the hose length, and went back to my inlaws to drop the oil, and put fittings onto the hoses on either end.

It actually relatively easy to install the fittings, even without a vice! Anyways, got them all on, dropped the oil and started hooking up the lines and fittings. installed the defi sensor into the sard adapter with some sealant, screwed it in and filled with oil. put in an extra 500ml ish of oil to make up for the hoses and cooler.

Got it all in, no leaks and all looked well! hot hose to the bottom of the cooler, cooler hose exiting the top of the cooler. Used the Earls hose separators to keep the hoses together, but ensure they're not touching otherwise no point of an optimal oil cooler! Let it idle for a solid 20-25 minutes and temp slowly went up to 65ish C on idle.






By this time it was 530pmish and raining. Drove back to my house which included the motorway.

Now this is where my pursuit of perfection took another turn...

FUCK SAKE!


anyways a short 2km trip i seen temps get up to around 72-73C. I'm thinking err ok, temps seem a bit low and if the thermostat is rated to fully close and direct all flow to the cooler starting from 93C.... is this cooler working too well... no i dont think so, Im suspecting its because I am now tapping the sump for oil temps! Get onto the M5, and at this stage the rain was consistent, but not heavy. oil temps dropped to 59C! Got home, kept scratching my head like WTF! I know that my car on street driving will average between 85-95C, and 80-90C (motorway).

I started looking at why I am seeing a big drop in oil temps. THe variables I jotted down were:

-increased oil volume by 500ml
-installed oil cooler where some oil will flow through, but not all via the thermostatic sandwich plate
-relocated oil temp sensor from sandwich plate to the sump


I normally just chuck in 5litres of oil in my car, and its been fine in the past. So by me adding an extra 500ml, I would have increased the capacity by 10%, I can see this making it slower to warm up the temps, but eventually the temps should be the same...

The Mocal rep did state that when temps are cooler than the thermostat operating temp, there would be around 5% flow. I think I stared at my sandwich plate like a dumb cunt for an hour looking at the way it works...



This side with the rubber o-ring faces the engine block. So oil is pushed out of the block on the outer rim areas, and the hole in the center is where oil leaves the filter/cooler and enters the engine again. When I look at the plate, I believe the mocal rep is incorrect as the oil will easily go through the hot hose towards the cooler rather than in the small opening opposite.... I'm glad I setup the oil cooler in a way where the passenger side mounting bracket is facing the front allowing me to install a block off plate! I believe after look at this, there is more like 60% of oil flowing through the cooler, even below 93C.

Theres quite a few posts around the web from all makes and models that also state they have seen differences in oil temp readings between the sump and sandwich plate. Glad I am not the only one with this line of thinking. This is also one of the issues why I was hesitant to place the sensor here due to this as I would rather tap an area where I can see hotter oil, as I cannot see the point in monitoring temps at a lower source where really the oil is seeing higher temps elsewhere. I thought the only way for me to get to the bottom of this is reinstall the sandwich plate allowing me to monitor and compare oil temps live at both the sandwich plate region and the sump!

The next day, I decided to drive my car to work as it would be a good opportunity to see how the temps look like. Opened up the bonnet the next morning, glad to see no leaks anywhere! So both the mid morning and afternoon drives showed my oil between the 70-80C mark. Contrary to previous street temps at 85-95C, there is a 15C difference. Its fair to say a portion of this is due to the cooler working by cooling any oil that has flowed through the system, but I also believe by tapping temp in the sump has also contributed. This is justified by the fact other guys around the world have said similar things RE temp differences, but most importantly, the next day I went back to my inlaws, and luckily this drive it was when Syhdney had that bullshit rain where there was a ton of water on the road. At this stage, I seen temps reach a WTF 38C! I think this goes to show how volatile temp readings can be as in addition to the cooling fins on the sump, plus cold weather and rain, it has drastically displayed a low oil temp reading. Ive had defi gauges for 5ish years now, and drove in all sorts of weather. Not once in my life have I seen street conditions seen temps drop below 80C on both the DC5/AP1...

Anyways come the weekend, I wanted to compare this, so I began the process of removing the sump plug adapter to drain the oil. This happened:





What you see above is the aftermath of the Sard brass adapter snapping cleanly. I should have waited till I got an o2 sensor styled socket (one with a slit) in where I can feed the disconnected defi cable, and then beable to grab over the entire hex section. I was lazy, and wanted to test it now. Bad mistake, luckily I fixed it with no issues.



FYI Blitz is the only company I have found that offer the sump plug adapter in steel! so if you champs ever want to tap the sump, use a steel fitting offered by brass.

What now?

Car is at the shop for it's respray:



I went to a fair few shops for quotes, all in sydney, and as far as DT PANELS down in Melbourne! I was sold on Hume Smash at Lansvale, but after going there twice with my car to get an accurate quote, and being told to come back next time / next year, that was shitting me, as well as the fact the owner kept on talking him and his work up... I have been there twice, one would think I would be interested, no need to try to keep selling yourself... I wont disclose the shop where I am going, but a pretty good hint is where a freshly resprayed red NSX (on here lol) went... I should get the car back in around 4-6 weeks time!

Once I get the car back, I will be going with my initial setup of using an Earls pressure gauge fitting and installing this at the sandwich plate on the hot hose. This will give me four benefits, keep the sensor close to the sandwich plate so I can get before and after comparisons, no wiring is hanging downlow where it could potnetially be picked up by something on the road, no ongoing issues in carefully removing the sump plug adapter etc, and I get to keep my fumoto drain valve!

Luckily I found a fellow friend in Australia have the exact same issue. Our oil cooler install is basically identical, and he gone with my suggestion of using the pressure gauge and now has positive results. Just a recap, the fitting is -10an male and female, and HEX section is 1/8NPT. I have since purchased a spacer fitting from Trust/Greddy. This will allow a defi sensor to be used and not run out of room to completely screw in. Downside here is it is 1/8PT going into 1/8NPT. I later found a few posts where people are able to screw in a pt fitting to npt, just to use sealant to ensure no leaks. Thats the only downside with this setup I believe, and now I can go ahead, and if it fails, well im not with a useless bit of hose!

[dfdc2r]

The car is coming together nicely! Can't wait to see the results after the respray.

[plAythiNG]

couple progress shots!

[Timmy_B]

can't wait to see the finished car