Rookie's Teg DC2 VTI-R

[rookie]

nah, i meant if you crash, not for driving...

sorry, but it is just really unsafe to change your seat and not put an appropriate seat belt to match it.

have you thought about fitting the fire extinguisher under your drivers seat?

Ah i see. Well i can't accurately say how it would handle in a crash but under hard braking it seems to restrict forward movement pretty well.

How is it any less safe than the oem seat and belt combo? Just wondering as nobody has ever raised this concern to me before.

I hadnt really thought about it as i thought it would get in the way but now you mention it, it's probably a good idea. Cheers for that recommendation.

[tinkerbell]

Ah i see. Well i can't accurately say how it would handle in a crash but under hard braking it seems to restrict forward movement pretty well.

How is it any less safe than the oem seat and belt combo? Just wondering as nobody has ever raised this concern to me before.

because no one said anything - it is safe and wont be dangerous?

pretty risky approach to take!



the 'lap' section of the seat is supposed to go from below the hip bone on the RHS across the lap (your lower abdominal area) to the other point on the inside to a point below the hip bone - thus hugging the pelvic bone.

(read here: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/.../SeatBelts.htm note the bit "How do seatbelts work?")

as your picture shows, this does not seem possible and the lap section will be above the hips and potentailly in the upper abdominal area.

have you changed it some how? where does the belt clip in? the OEM seat has the seat belt clip attached to the seat... does the Recaro have this?

also seat belts have a tensioner that is designed for the OEM seat only, and must work at a very specifc angle, that might be altered due to the height of the side bolsters on the seat you have.

more info here: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...f/vsb_05_b.pdf

[rookie]

because no one said anything - it is safe and wont be dangerous?

pretty risky approach to take!



the 'lap' section of the seat is supposed to go from below the hip bone on the RHS across the lap (your lower abdominal area) to the other point on the inside to a point below the hip bone - thus hugging the pelvic bone.

(read here: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/.../SeatBelts.htm note the bit "How do seatbelts work?")

as your picture shows, this does not seem possible and the lap section will be above the hips and potentailly in the upper abdominal area.

have you changed it some how? where does the belt clip in? the OEM seat has the seat belt clip attached to the seat... does the Recaro have this?

also seat belts have a tensioner that is designed for the OEM seat only, and must work at a very specifc angle, that might be altered due to the height of the side bolsters on the seat you have.

more info here: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...f/vsb_05_b.pdf

Holy batman that's a lot of info. I will read those supporting documents you linked when i get to a computer. For now i will address the questions.

I never said that it was a safe thing to do, I just assumed it would be because I have never heard nor found much plausible data saying that oem seatbelts are unsafe in a bucket seats.

In regards to how the belt clip mounts, the recaro rails have a bolt to remount the oem seat belt receptacle. This is low down the side of the seat. I have purchased a seatbelt extender that reaches through the hole in the side of the seat as to keep the belt lower on my hips and to avoid large angles on the seat belt receptacle.

In regards to the belt itself, i have not done it yet but I had planned to unbolt the oem seatbelt mount, feed it through the hole in the seat on the door side and re-bolt it to the chassis thus keeping the seatbelt firmly to my pelvis when clipped in.

Yes the angle of the seatbelt is my only real concern as it is at a larger than ideal angle, this is also exaggerated to my needing to have the seat most of the way forward due to my short stature.

Please tell me if you think the above description still seems unsafe to you. And again, thanks heaps for the info. I am now going to look into the possibility of getting a proper harness.

[tinkerbell]

Holy batman that's a lot of info. I will read those supporting documents you linked when i get to a computer. For now i will address the questions.

I never said that it was a safe thing to do, I just assumed it would be because I have never heard nor found much plausible data saying that oem seatbelts are unsafe in a bucket seats.

you do know fitting non-OEM seats requries an engineering certificate, right? that to me implies that there is something important to get right when installing them...

In regards to how the belt clip mounts, the recaro rails have a bolt to remount the oem seat belt receptacle. This is low down the side of the seat. I have purchased a seatbelt extender that reaches through the hole in the side of the seat as to keep the belt lower on my hips and to avoid large angles on the seat belt receptacle.

In regards to the belt itself, i have not done it yet but I had planned to unbolt the oem seatbelt mount, feed it through the hole in the seat on the door side and re-bolt it to the chassis thus keeping the seatbelt firmly to my pelvis when clipped in.

that would help, but again, the angle at the retractor is crucial to the proper operation of the tensioner (as you will find out from the ADRs) to try and keep this as close to the OEM as possible, but yeah - i have done that in the past, and it feels much better...

Yes the angle of the seatbelt is my only real concern as it is at a larger than ideal angle, this is also exaggerated to my needing to have the seat most of the way forward due to my short stature.

this could also make the situation worse (as you are saying you have the seat a fair way forward), as you need to have a perfectly operating seat belt/tensioner to ensure that the SRS airbag does not kill you if it deploys (remember the fixed back seat is harder/stiffer then the OEM one, so if you may become the meat between a stiff seat and an exploding bag of gas... im not trying to say you will die, i have no idea! - but you need to think about how every change you make to your car effects you (if you want to be any good at modifying cars)).

Please tell me if you think the above description still seems unsafe to you. And again, thanks heaps for the info. I am now going to look into the possibility of getting a proper harness.

(added bold comments)

well, still 'unsafe', but much safer than having the lap sash over the TOP of the seat...

(and BTW - there will be no point that i will ever say a fixed back bucket seat is 'safe' without a properly installed harness.)

[rookie]

(added bold comments)
you do know fitting non-OEM seats requries an engineering certificate, right? that to me implies that there is something important to get right when installing them...

Yes i did think it requires one. I'm just trying to do the best with what i have.

that would help, but again, the angle at the retractor is crucial to the proper operation of the tensioner (as you will find out from the ADRs) to try and keep this as close to the OEM as possible, but yeah - i have done that in the past, and it feels much better...

Good to know that it works, albeit not great. Like i said, considering the information you have given me i will research and look into getting a proper harness. Any recommendations?

this could also make the situation worse (as you are saying you have the seat a fair way forward), as you need to have a perfectly operating seat belt/tensioner to ensure that the SRS airbag does not kill you if it deploys (remember the fixed back seat is harder/stiffer then the OEM one, so if you may become the meat between a stiff seat and an exploding bag of gas... im not trying to say you will die, i have no idea! - but you need to think about how every change you make to your car effects you (if you want to be any good at modifying cars)).

Mmmmm i know what you mean. Do you think i would be better off not running airbag at all (ie getting an aftermarket wheel)? Or getting a proper harness setup?

well, still 'unsafe', but much safer than having the lap sash over the TOP of the seat...

(and BTW - there will be no point that i will ever say a fixed back bucket seat is 'safe' without a properly installed harness.)

Understood, but considering this car is my daily majority of the time, do you think that it is safe enough for this?

[tinkerbell]

you could do what i do:

get to track, change wheels and tyres, remove OEM seat, install race seat, install harness, drive all day flat-out comfortably, change wheels and tyres, remove harness, remove race seat, reinstall OEM seat, drive home.

admittedly, i raced last years NSW Hillclimb championship in the Road Registered Class, so had to race with the OEM seat or have the Sparco engineered...

to engineer a fixed back seat you need to convert the car to a 2 seat registration plus heaps of annoying crap, so decided it wasnt worth it.

BUT - i was allowed to run a 3-point harness as the original OEM seatbelt remained, and therefore the car would still pass registration check.

and running the OEM seat with a 3-point harness was fine - in fact WAY better than running bucket seat with an OEM seat belt (but only for the track - never run a harness on public roads).

again - like the extinguisher - you gotta work out what the reason for fitting it is... especially to a 'daily driver'

Understood, but considering this car is my daily majority of the time, do you think that it is safe enough for this?

i hope you understand my reluctance to provide affirmation to your question - only you can decide what is 'safe-enough' for your driving situations.

[DaRKNT]

I don't mean to thread jack, but tinks, you very specifically mentioned fixed back seats as needing a harness... what do you say for aftermarket recliner seats? For instance, a bride stradia?

I believe that the angle seems roughly the same as oem due to the change in profile of the lower bolster to accomodate the mechanism.

[tinkerbell]

I don't mean to thread jack, but tinks, you very specifically mentioned fixed back seats as needing a harness... what do you say for aftermarket recliner seats? For instance, a bride stradia?

it looks like that specific seat could be used with the OEM seat belt?

but it would still need an engineer to certify that it still complied with ADRs, but yes, recliners are much better option for daily driver over fixed-back seats.

[rookie]

you could do what i do:

get to track, change wheels and tyres, remove OEM seat, install race seat, install harness, drive all day flat-out comfortably, change wheels and tyres, remove harness, remove race seat, reinstall OEM seat, drive home.

admittedly, i raced last years NSW Hillclimb championship in the Road Registered Class, so had to race with the OEM seat or have the Sparco engineered...

to engineer a fixed back seat you need to convert the car to a 2 seat registration plus heaps of annoying crap, so decided it wasnt worth it.

BUT - i was allowed to run a 3-point harness as the original OEM seatbelt remained, and therefore the car would still pass registration check.

and running the OEM seat with a 3-point harness was fine - in fact WAY better than running bucket seat with an OEM seat belt (but only for the track - never run a harness on public roads).

again - like the extinguisher - you gotta work out what the reason for fitting it is... especially to a 'daily driver'

i hope you understand my reluctance to provide affirmation to your question - only you can decide what is 'safe-enough' for your driving situations.

I like what you do, probably a good idea to just spend the extra effort swapping stuff in and out for track days as they are relatively far and few between.
Might i ask why never to wear a harness on public roads?

I understand your reluctance, no need to answer the question

[rookie]

Daily Delivery

[rookie]

Couple new things I have recieved:


Hardrace Rear Camber Arms


Comp Tyres Pressure Gauge

[eskimo_firefighter]

I really like that tyre pressure gauge you have there, mind if i ask where you got it from and how much?

[rookie]

I really like that tyre pressure gauge you have there, mind if i ask where you got it from and how much?

Cheers! I purchased it from Ebay. I had heard some good things about this gauge, and for the price; i couldn't say no.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CompetitionT...item3f05acf139

If you want a nicer gauge and you're not afraid to spend a little more, apparently the intercomp (http://www.intercomp-racing.com/prod...TOKEN=10201823) ones are really good.

[ChargeR]

That's cool and all, but where's your post on your H Nationals experience?

[Shakeel]

Oh Michael, we tend to buy the same things!

I've also bought the exact same gauge haha