New civic R $39990?

[JCE]

In the 1980's Honda championed the cause of double wishbone suspension while almost all other Japanese manufacturers exclusivley used McPherson Strut suspension.

Honda did this as they knew they could achieve their intended end result better with their chosen design.

However it is a more complex design that requires more parts, more labour to install, more raw materials, a higher maintenance cost over the life of the vehicle and at the end of the day is a more expensive solution.

But it works, and it works well.

Drivers (i refer to people that enjoy driving, not those that simply steer the wheel of a car) fell in love with Honda's such as the early model Civic, CRX, Prelude and Integra as they offered driving experiences that resulted from a design where cost/profit margin was not the contributing factor.

Honda have scrapped double wishbone suspension on nearly all of their models and it is nothing more than a cost-cutting exercise in order to increase their bottom line margin on a model that is going to achieve high sales.

[JCE]

sorry for any confusions. All my commetns are stated to be for track conditions only. I am well aware of your ethos on modification comprimise and i 110% agree.

But to compare you gotta make it simple and we are talking about sports cars here and modifying cars with a better driver average driver. Only track conditions seem suitable in this discussion. In which case the only conditions the heavily modified car would not be in a advantagous position is if a shit driver setups the car wrongly. Even then it would be the drivers fault for not setting it up correctly.

It is only possible to compare if you consider

1. track conditions
2. both cars are at their best optimal setup

If you compare those two conditions i find it hard to see how any stock car would triumph any slightly or heavily modified car.

Jing,

From a track orientated perspective an older model Honda such as an ED/EF Civic/CRX has the same or higher potential as newer model Hondas such as your DC5.

The chassis can be lightened further than the DC5 as there is ultimately less sheetmetal in the design.

The initial stiffness of the chassis is redundant when you are going to be seam welding/caging the car. Only a certain amount of rigidity is needed to support a given spring rate. The EF/ED chassis is going to be lighter, needing less spring rate and therefore less rigidity.

The ED/EF chassis also has an all round double wishbone suspension, and although still flawed is a better option than what the DC5 or the new CTR has to offer.

I guess it all comes down to what car you want to have to say your "build" is based upon.

[Jingers]

Jing,

From a track orientated perspective an older model Honda such as an ED/EF Civic/CRX has the same or higher potential as newer model Hondas such as your DC5.

The chassis can be lightened further than the DC5 as there is ultimately less sheetmetal in the design.

The initial stiffness of the chassis is redundant when you are going to be seam welding/caging the car. Only a certain amount of rigidity is needed to support a given spring rate. The EF/ED chassis is going to be lighter, needing less spring rate and therefore less rigidity.

The ED/EF chassis also has an all round double wishbone suspension, and although still flawed is a better option than what the DC5 or the new CTR has to offer.

I guess it all comes down to what car you want to have to say your "build" is based upon.

i think its just a cheap car to modify and people are willing to try more shiton it and thats all.

later on down the track honda develops the new varient of k series engines. We bolt that into dc5's with the same results. Its pretty pointless.

Fullstop the crx ed ef chassis is inferior just like the dc2. Also you are not taking into consideration the finer aspects of tuning. You are not taking into consideration wheel base, wheel track and such things which cannot be changed. The modifications of egk20a and such cars are not really modification on stock cars anymore. In my case i am still modifying a stockk standard car. You comparing the crx with k20a engine would be likeend to me saying putting the next gen of k series engines into my dc5.

Abit pointless really?

[rG`]

Wow, thread overheated

[tinkerbell]

Wow, thread overheated

blame it on the 'confirmation bias' overload

[JCE]

Physics will dictate how fast your car will go Jing.

Unless that changes overnight, the best chassis to use will be the one that you are easiest able to achieve a lower power to weight ratio on.

Read ED/EF/EG/DC2

The "vaunted" stiffness of the DC5 is moreso a result of making the car safer.

Have a read on http://www.hondachallenge.com

However at the end of the day both the DC2 and DC5 are still based upon an econo box civic shopping trolley.

Want a race car?

Buy a GT3.

[JCE]

Wow, thread overheated

[Jingers]

Physics will dictate how fast your car will go Jing.

Unless that changes overnight, the best chassis to use will be the one that you are easiest able to achieve a lower power to weight ratio on.

Read ED/EF/EG/DC2

The "vaunted" stiffness of the DC5 is moreso a result of making the car safer.

Have a read on http://www.hondachallenge.com

However at the end of the day both the DC2 and DC5 are still based upon an econo box civic shopping trolley.

Want a race car?

Buy a GT3.

anyways we have side tracked quite abit. I dont think it has anything relevent to do with this thread anymore.

Basically. Stop whinging, dont like civic R? Get over it ..

[chuck]

anyways we have side tracked quite abit. I dont think it has anything relevent to do with this thread anymore.

Basically. Stop whinging, dont like civic R? Get over it ..

True we have side tracked. Can't tell people to get over opinion's Jingers, as you said, Forums are here to share views mate!

[Jingers]

yeah im just my opnion that im annoyed thats all but then im easily annoyed

in hindsight i should have just kept out of this thread and not voiced my annoyance ......... fuck

[chuck]

It's all good. Better to have passion than be dead while still alive...

[Jingers]

so are you going to teach me how to drive properly when i meet you at track next time

[chuck]

That's a hard question to answer, I love sharing any knowledge about driving, but I still don't rate myself....I still have a lot to learn. I just love driving!

[narada]

so nobody here thinks the FN2 could lap wakefield faster than a DC5R? or DC2R?

[chuck]

haha i agree with jing... if laptimes are most important then go buy an evo.. or a race car

but really at the end of the day its about enjoyment of your car.. the driving experience

from what i have read the new FN2 is best when going 10-10ths and most rewarding that way and mediocre otherwise... just like other type Rs

so nobody here thinks the FN2 could lap wakefield faster than a DC5R? or DC2R?

Not flaming, but I can't see where you are coming from? First lap times aren't important and now they are? (I don't care if I'm the fastest, I care if I'm improving, and they are important when competing on a minor level like some of us are... not just doing track days)

If FN2 is is best enjoyed at 10-10ths, wouldn't that be on the track? I certainly don't drive 10-10ths on the road and I hope you guys don't either. There is spirited driving but it is nowhere near track level.

In this article The Stig in FN2 is 2 seconds slower than a GTI. I have been competing against a well driven GTI and generally lapping 2 seconds faster, both of us on R rubber.
http://www.civictyper.com.au/downloa...ar_article.pdf

The R26 goes 4 seconds faster, they are available in OZ for same price as FN2...