Has your rear ever come out?

[hebe]

Don't know how hard you guys are driving to have your rear end to come out on the street? lol...Never experienced it on both the R's I've had...but I'm a granny driver

[milkman]

Sounds like snap oversteer or lift off oversteer. It can happen in almost any FWD car (and RWD for you smartasses). Basically when taking a corner too hot you back off too much or brake upsetting the attitude of the car. 'Cos you see when take a corner the front wheels load up with weight and when you brake or take your foot off the loud pedal (very abruptly) you're taking the weight off the front wheels the wheels responsible for steering and putting all the load on the rear and it doesn't have enough grip to hold on nor does it steer so starts to veer to the outside of the turn.

Hope it makes sense. I'm no good at explaining this stuff.

I highly recommend newbies to do advanced driving courses like Luff etc.. you will learn how to avoid stuff like this (ie. smooth application of throttle, correct judgement of cornering lines and braking etc.)

[-Ad-]

Sounds like snap oversteer or lift off oversteer. It can happen in almost any FWD car (and RWD for you smartasses). Basically when taking a corner too hot you back off too much or brake upsetting the attitude of the car. 'Cos you see when take a corner the front wheels load up with weight and when you brake or take your foot off the loud pedal (very abruptly) you're taking the weight off the front wheels the wheels responsible for steering and putting all the load on the rear and it doesn't have enough grip to hold on nor does it steer so starts to veer to the outside of the turn.

Hope it makes sense. I'm no good at explaining this stuff.

I highly recommend newbies to do advanced driving courses like Luff etc.. you will learn how to avoid stuff like this (ie. smooth application of throttle, correct judgement of cornering lines and braking etc.)

seems like from my interpretation of what your trying to get at, your saying whilst cornering, the weight is already at the front, and when u back off or brake, the weight is coming off? isn't it the opposite, as when you are accelerating, the weight is shifted to the rear of the car. when your at constant speed, the weight is distributed as if you are stationary (then plus/minus downforce due to windspeed factors). when u back off or brake, the weight is shifted to the front, adding more force to the front wheels, hence having less weight in the rear. this then sees the front wheels, being turned with the corner, having more 'influence' in the cars direction.

this is my understanding on the issue. correct me if im wrong.

[milkman]

seems like from my interpretation of what your trying to get at, your saying whilst cornering, the weight is already at the front, and when u back off or brake, the weight is coming off? isn't it the opposite, as when you are accelerating, the weight is shifted to the rear of the car. when your at constant speed, the weight is distributed as if you are stationary (then plus/minus downforce due to windspeed factors). when u back off or brake, the weight is shifted to the front, adding more force to the front wheels, hence having less weight in the rear. this then sees the front wheels, being turned with the corner, having more 'influence' in the cars direction.

this is my understanding on the issue. correct me if im wrong.

You are most correct

Crap I wrote it wrong way round.. sorry Mondayitis @ work

What i was trying say .. Lifting off the throttle will cause the weight of the car to "shift" to the front, thereby putting more weight over the front wheels and, ultimately, adding more grip to the front tyres. However, the rear tyres may lose traction and start to slide outwards while you're turning. Lift off/snap oversteer. To prevent further snap oversteer you apply the throttle smoothly and the car will become controllable again, it takes big gonads and alot of experience to do this though. So my advice to the average joes is to do it on track or drive within your comfort zone/limits.

Haha I learnt this stuff @ luff 1,2 and 3 a few years back..so I could be wrong as I'm abit rusty.

[SPL_K]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer

I read through that and the graphs are just o_O haha

[Chi]

My old eg used to flick out/over steer a fair bit on track.

Had 22mm rear sway, Rear strut, c pillar and damper adjustable shocks/ spring kit.

Zi drove it at wakey and said it was f**king scary, and never drove it again.


With the DC5R it tends to slightly over steer, but the front end seems naturally unstable if pushed too hard.

This is my experience with several DC5Rs driven.

[tinkerbell]

My old eg used to flick out/over steer a fair bit on track.

Had 22mm rear sway,

exactly! you had a comparativly *massive* rear sway bar!

the rear sway bar has much more effect than damper settings...

the DC2R has much larger rear bar compared to DC5R,

meaning it will "rotate" much easier than most other FWD cars (including DC5R)...

[tinkerbell]

my response to a PM recently recieved...

i think it is relevent to most people,

please feel free to add commnets...

Hey tinkerbell,

being still being a noob to suspension setups, was wondering what kind of suspension settings i should aim for. I'm concerned about "lift off oversteer". Is there a way to tune this out, without receiving massive amounts of understeer?

hmmm, maybe instead focusing of the car, you need to "tune" your driving? no offence, but if something is happening unexpectedly - you might not be paying enough attention to the *feedback* that the car is giving you.

I am not criticising you - this is what 90% of all drivers’ lack! the ability to truly feel how the car is reacting to the road and your driving inputs. this is the defining factor between a good driver and an excellent driver...

it is usually not the car/suspension/road or whatever - it is usually the way the driver reacts to the car/suspension/road that determines a successful outcome... so essentially - the first step in achieving this *reactability* is to become modest and try to balance "the car controlling you", and "you controlling the car"...

this took me years to practice, but once I found the balance, it was like magic, where I was now "one with the car", allowing it to dictate to me what limits that I could achieve, and by doing so - I achieved a much higher overall actual "limit" than if I was trying to dictate to the car what I wanted it to do...

I'm also looking to get better tyres, T1Rs, as my current tyres are not the best.

proper high quality, correctly sized tyres are the key to achieving this *reactability*.

my dad taught me this, he always got expensive tyres, always inspected them at the servo, check pressures, always rotated them every 5000km - so he was sure that when he was pushing the car it would communicate with him the way he expected... thereby achieving the synergy that was required to *feel* the car...

like trying to play xBox with skiing gloves on??? You simply can’t feel the controls… so yes, good tyres, properly maintained, are very important to the *reactability* equation.

I've taken the car for a spirited drive and I've adjusted the damper settings to my preference and I softened the back up a bit as well.

Well, that is good, but this is my advice regarding damper settings - put them where you feel comfortable... this will usually be where you feel the car is not "bouncy" or "jumpy" but retains a firm ness that is not "wallowy" or "floaty"…

however – you need to realise that the damper is NOT there to *control* your understeer/oversteer - the dampeners are there to dampen your springs bounciness...

for further more indepth information about handling - please read up on all the excellent articles at:

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handling/handling.shtml

[tinkerbell]

NB - as the original poster stated, he experienced the oversteer after a long drive... so it is our *level of concentration* that is important too...

[SPL_K]

thanks for the response tinkerbell.

yeh the car is fairly new to me and i haven't had it for long. I used to own a FR vehicle so the characteristics and driving style are different. It's also been a year since i've owned my own car, so i wouldn't say my driving is upto par with what i wanted it to be. I'll be hitting the track soon to find the limits of the car and hopefully attending some advanced driving courses. Would anyone here be interested to attend some driving courses for ClubITR? I can look into organising one if people are interested.

Sorry for not making an introduction thread, i'm just not so into publicising my car. But to let you know i have a CW DC2R.

[hebe]

picsorban please

[SPL_K]

from the previous owner.

anyone interested in advanced driving courses ?

[IcemaN]

is it my driving or what, but i cant come close to reaching the limits of a dc2r on the street? car doesnt like street driving, track driving is a different story though

[hebe]

is it my driving or what, but i cant come close to reaching the limits of a dc2r on the street? car doesnt like street driving, track driving is a different story though

Why would you want to drive to the limits of any car on the street anyways?

A car on the street is to take you from A to B...safely and responsibly too.

[MrThanh]

on the little trip back from wakefield i went on with jingers, ed and jonnie... ed's rear almost came out. i was driving... jing and jonnie were in the car next to us in the left lane.