Problems with Heel/Toe in a DC5R

[tinkerbell]

yes, but the point of heel-toeing is to prepare for corner exit after apex, well at least that is all it is commonly used for, so i was picturing you doing it through roundabouts and intersections!

if you were REALLY good you could rev-match while using your left foot for the brake!!

give that a go!

[wongy]

Lol, then thats not heel toe...and why would I wanna try that lol, nah, I always get lazy though, so dont always rev match or heel toe, nah, not roundabouts, but I do it on intersections sometimes when I speed up for an amber

[tinkerbell]

and why would I wanna try that lol,

for when you clutch breaks, obviously

that's how i learnt how to do it...

[wongy]

Yea, I know how to do it, , I just choose not to destroy my clutch practising it.

[tinkerbell]

it destroys your gearbox - not your clutch, but yeah - i am glad i had an 89 Civic to learn it on

[knobosaurus]

So many driving pros here. Gots a related question. When you're approaching a corner amd you know what gear you're going to end up in. I.e. 3rd down from 5th. Do you: heel toe to 4th then 3rd or just brake how much you need to then heel toe to 3rd?

[wongy]

U can do both, I sometimes jump to 3rd or sometimes I go 5 to 4 then to 3 heel toeing between gears., depends on personal preference

[plAythiNG]

I would go from 5th to 3rd. Obviously big rev match/heel toe...

Imo if u go from 5-4-3 u are braking too soon?

[tinkerbell]

Since the reason you do it is to prepare for corner exit, you would go 5 to 3. But because you are going across the gate, you have to be careful!

[wongy]

Not really if your used to it then u know how much u have to break

[tinkerbell]

Which tracks down there do you have to do that at?

[Flippit]

So many driving pros here. Gots a related question. When you're approaching a corner amd you know what gear you're going to end up in. I.e. 3rd down from 5th. Do you: heel toe to 4th then 3rd or just brake how much you need to then heel toe to 3rd?

You go from 5th straight to 3rd. If you have time to go to 4th and release clutch that meens your not breaking hard enough and burning time on track.

Wakefield's famous kink is perfect for 5th approach, heeltoe to 3rd and out the corner.

[munkaii]

As Phil said, Wakefield @ the kink and perhaps Sydney Motorsport Park at T9/10. They are two spots where you probably have to pull back two gears.

Some race drivers will go through the two gears to use a bit of compression braking but for a street car, if you need to go down two gears you might be braking a little early.

If I'm braking to the point where I need to go down two gears, I spend more time on the brakes & heel toe at lower RPM. It means you can focus on that initial first brake application to minimise stopping distance.

[lil_foy]

Since the reason you do it is to prepare for corner exit, you would go 5 to 3. But because you are going across the gate, you have to be careful!

Tink i see you commenting a lot about heel toeing after corner apex, are you talking about trail braking? My understanding of heeltoeing is revmatching a downshift whilst applying brake pressure, this can be done at any speed provided you are familiar with the pedal layout/throttle/brake pressures. Hell I heeltoe in my parents elantra when im driving it, makes it smoother on decel.

[tinkerbell]

Tink i see you commenting a lot about heel toeing after corner apex, are you talking about trail braking? My understanding of heeltoeing is revmatching a downshift whilst applying brake pressure,

sorry if you seem to think that i am saying that heel toe should be performed after corner exit.

if i have given that impression, then i am apologise, but having reviewed my comments i think maybe you have mis-read or misconstrued them?

let me state this clearly:

the only reason to use heel toe is to prepare for corner exit

key word is 'prepare'

for sake of absolute clarity - i will let turnfast's description speak for itself:

On the race track, as you approach a corner, your right foot comes off the gas pedal and presses the brake with the ball of the foot. Before the braking is done, you need to shift gears so when the braking is done you can immediately be back on the gas. When the braking is almost done, your left foot pushes the clutch pedal in, and your right hand downshifts.

However, while you've been slowing down, the engine speed has dropped. If you let the clutch out now, the car will jerk severely as the engine works like a huge brake. If you're at the edge of traction limits (which you should be), you'll lose control of the car. To prevent this, something needs to rev the engine back up to the right speed before the clutch is released. The right foot is closest, so it is elected to tap the gas pedal.

Even though the right foot is busy braking, you swing your right heel over the gas pedal and give it a short push (a "blip" as it is called) to rev the engine while the left foot also lets out the clutch (the ball of the right foot is still on the brake). The amount of blip, and the clutch release timing need to be perfected so there is a perfectly smooth transition when the clutch engages the engine.

Meanwhile, the heel is rotated back off the gas, the ball of the right foot has still been braking, and has been easing off as the car approaches the turn-in point. The downshift should be completed before the braking is complete, and before the turn-in. As the engine and transmission are engaged, the braking reduced, and the turn-in begun as the foot makes a smooth transition back to the gas pedal. At first only enough gas is applied to sustain the initial corner speed, and then you gradually accelerate out of the corner.

and just a reminder to those people making comments about "i do it in traffic" or "i do it in my mums car"

this is the Track Talk forum and such comments are really not on topic...