Dry Sump (Peterson) Setup

[ewendc2r]

I guess I look at it like this. I've already dumped too much money into the thing, fully committed.. I've realised now that the budget for the build is ... substantial. And that's fine I guess, but it doesn't help when as matty says, there is always shit to upgrade & replace.. I probably should have started with my budget first then goal from that, but I wouldn't have started it if I fully realised the total expense ahead hah.. Had to trick myself into it..

[WhiteDC2]

If it's cheap and fast, it's not reliable.
If it's cheap and reliable, it's not fast.
If it's fast and reliable, it's not cheap.

I know how things get out of hand. Seriously though, if you can stretch your budjet, do everything properly the first time. Otherwise you just end up breaking shit and chasing your tail around. It may seem expensive now but you'll save money in the long run.

[mattyd]

If it's cheap and fast, it's not reliable.
If it's cheap and reliable, it's not fast.
If it's fast and reliable, it's not cheap.

I know how things get out of hand. Seriously though, if you can stretch your budjet, do everything properly the first time. Otherwise you just end up breaking shit and chasing your tail around. It may seem expensive now but you'll save money in the long run.

i couldnt have said it better!

what i just completed was stage 2 of engine mods. I swear my engine has been in and out way too many times for a road going car. In saying that, had i realised that a dry sump was the optimal thing for me to do, then i would have saved myself the labour cost of pulling the engine out the second time, not to mention the down time, the hours spent constantly researching (lucky i get paid for most of it lol) and my mechanic would have been thankful that i wasnt taking up the hoist for another 6 weeks.

do it right the first time and you will only have the niggles to deal with.

if you can pick up the full dry sump system for $900US and it is something that you think you need, do it now while it is so damn affordable. Push back you dates of stipping the engine down a few weeks until you can save that cash back up and then dont have to skimp somewhere else.

i assume you are going a full rebuild + s/charger??

do you have any pics of the dry sump kit? I think i might have seen this somewhere before?!?

hit me up if you wanna come see my set up and the finer points of fitment lol

have you sourced all your parts and now looking at this dry sump because it has reared its tempting head?

what i meant about things never ending is with automotive parts, every time they are used they are being worn. You cannot stop that. There will always something to fix, change, alter, duct tape and cable tie. It is just the way it is, somethings are just cheaper than others to replace. Think about it this way, you are peddling what is a standard road going car with 2 to 3 times the stock power... Say you take it to the drag strip, how long do you expect the drive shafts to last at 7500 rpm launches?

speaking of which, i need to replace my speedo cable... this is going to be awesome =S

[fatboyz39]

I know how things get out of hand. Seriously though, if you can stretch your budjet, do everything properly the first time. Otherwise you just end up breaking shit and chasing your tail around. It may seem expensive now but you'll save money in the long run.

So true !! haha

[ewendc2r]

I'm not rebuilding / opening the motor until I start having troubles with it.. Stock internals are 'good enough' in the itr motor but definitely a high compression FI setup is on the cards for the future (10:1 min) .. I don't want/need to run excessive boost levels, maximum I will need is 18psi with final M90 kit which is more than enough for 450whp.. In fact, I don't even think its necessary for my application (non-drag).

The dry sump is as you said, more of an opportune thing. I'm thinking that I can install it now in any case and then re-use it when the engine is rebuilt. Its pretty fresh .. He is sending me some more details on the kit ie full history etc but claims the sale is due to pulling the pin on his 9s Civic Coupe lol..

95 HONDA COUPE TURBO
819HP 553TQ
6.4990 1/8 mile 118 mph
9.97 @ 147 mph

ROFL.. Crazy.

Anyhow picture of kit:



Looks good yeah?

If you're interested I can provide a link to project thread on car -- Its still in its 'infancy' compared with some of the cars on the board. But is starting to take shape now. Will wait until I can find an LHT cooler before installing will be a pita to remove SC later on and get re-tuned. The Dry Sump setup might even go someway to balancing out the parasitic issues with the SC unit.. Will be interesting.

[tinkerbell]

got enough room for all that gear + a super charger + a cooler?

sorry, just a practical question...

[m0nty]

Just putting it out there but what makes a dry sump setup more reliable than an OEM spec oiling system? Or do you mean the oiling system will make the engine more reliable under duress?

I don't think an aftermarket dry sump system will approach the reliability of the OEM Honda oiling system.

As to your question "Why don't we go down this path?" I don't go down this path because I am poor and the engine runs just fine as it is. I would definitely consider it when building a track focused car but there would be a 100 other things on my list to purchase before I bothered with a dry sump.

My thoughts entirely. I'm only going to dry sump when the engine warrants it. Until then, there are plenty of other things I could do and a baffled pan will do OK for the interim.

[fatboyz39]

I'm not rebuilding / opening the motor until I start having troubles with it.. Stock internals are 'good enough' in the itr motor but definitely a high compression FI setup is on the cards for the future (10:1 min) .. I don't want/need to run excessive boost levels, maximum I will need is 18psi with final M90 kit which is more than enough for 450whp.. In fact, I don't even think its necessary for my application (non-drag).

The dry sump is as you said, more of an opportune thing. I'm thinking that I can install it now in any case and then re-use it when the engine is rebuilt. Its pretty fresh .. He is sending me some more details on the kit ie full history etc but claims the sale is due to pulling the pin on his 9s Civic Coupe lol..

95 HONDA COUPE TURBO
819HP 553TQ
6.4990 1/8 mile 118 mph
9.97 @ 147 mph

ROFL.. Crazy.

Anyhow picture of kit:



Looks good yeah?

If you're interested I can provide a link to project thread on car -- Its still in its 'infancy' compared with some of the cars on the board. But is starting to take shape now. Will wait until I can find an LHT cooler before installing will be a pita to remove SC later on and get re-tuned. The Dry Sump setup might even go someway to balancing out the parasitic issues with the SC unit.. Will be interesting.

900US is a bargain. I would imagine shipping wont be cheap for all of those items.

5 stage pump is abit excessive.

[ewendc2r]

got enough room for all that gear + a super charger + a cooler?

sorry, just a practical question...

Looks like it -- Working it out now. Will relocate a couple of things to the firewall in any case, and the SC is well positioned under the manifold, should be fine. Heat Exchange is built into the intake manifold core so no real room taken up by it other than radiator part on front of car. My concern is removal of P/S .. I've already deleted the AC so that frees some room up in any case. But yep thanks for putting that out there -- I have been known to buy couches & fridges that don't fit in units lol, so there is a track record of that sort of thing haha..

Got the charger complete shipping for $270US -- Wouldnt imagine this will be as expensive.. (Charger was around 15-20kgs)

[ewendc2r]

Yeah I've been advised by several people that I really only need a 3 stage max.. But if its there and available.. I'm sure I could flick it to someone here if worst came to worst, even with a bit of fabricating still good value for the K boys. Monty thanks for your input -- I can understand where you are coming from, and you are also unlikely to use second hand parts.. I guess I don't mind buying parts that I can re-use with different setups etc..

The other benefit that is usually the reason for installing dry sump is to make it possible to lower the engine mounting point & lower CG. This is serious work, I wonder if the benefits are really worthwhile -- Seems like a massive amount of fabrication etc..

[ewendc2r]

So received response. As I thought, requires removal of P/S (not a huge issue really) but he is adamant not suitable for daily driving.. Only for race application.

Do these systems have a short life-time or something? I don't really understand why not otherwise.

[mattyd]

I dont understand why it wouldnt be suitable for daily driving either.

The only thing I can think of is that there may be too much scavaging suction by the pump?, maybe too many points of suction? Maybe the pump requires priming before every start, ie needs to be spun via cordless drill to build up oil pressure before starting the engine??!

They are not unreliable, peterson pumps are built tough, and I can imagine that their systems are tested at some of the highest levels of motor sport otherwise they wouldnt have the name that they do.

I guess just ask him the question, what makes it unsuitable for a daily drive?
My guess is that the pump may need priming, or it has never been tested without priming first.

[mattyd]

btw its a nice looking kit, however isnt the sump pan just a stockie with fittings welded on?

[ewendc2r]

btw its a nice looking kit, however isnt the sump pan just a stockie with fittings welded on?

Yeah I saw that -- Probably not really an issue for me though as sump clearance is reasonable at the moment (i.e. If I dropped the car down that low, it wouldn't be streetable).

Hmmm... And I don't see why you would need to prime it, not like we leave the car on stands for like 4 weeks between starts lol.. I would think that the residual oil coating would be sufficient until oil pressure came up (which in any instance would be almost immediate I'd think).

Any other thoughts? Since this is a daily driver -- I really want to keep P/S as long as possible, my shoulder is bunged and the easier to steer the better..

Perhaps someone else here would be interested for race only application?

[mattyd]

you are right the pressure should be instantly there.

It is a lot of kit for the money.

There are solutions for P/S, i mean you can run an electric pump from a toyota MR2 and feed the lines that way. But again that is modding something to get around something else, and that is when it gets costly.

Personally, I have driven my car with and without p/s.. for a daily drive i would want powersteering.. for a focused racer, i would delete power steering as it is only at its hardest when you are moving slowly ie in and out of car parks etc

i think it is about finding the balance of what you want your car to do. Good to see you are putting a lot of thought into it!