Dry Sump (Peterson) Setup

[ewendc2r]

Hey .. So I know that Dry Sump setups are better in almost every way to wet sump, and I've come across a full 5 stage setup in good condition for $900us -- Everything included..

So -- Why don't we go down this path? I mean, reduced parasitic losses and increased reliability. Generally price has been the main reason, but I've seen some cheaper used versions getting around ..

Benson/Monty -- Is this something you are looking to do in the future or is it a little bit too far?

Opinions?

[Type S Tony]

Hey .. So I know that Dry Sump setups are better in almost every way to wet sump, and I've come across a full 5 stage setup in good condition for $900us -- Everything included..

So -- Why don't we go down this path? I mean, reduced parasitic losses and increased reliability. Generally price has been the main reason, but I've seen some cheaper used versions getting around ..

Benson/Monty -- Is this something you are looking to do in the future or is it a little bit too far?

Opinions?

Alot of effort to install!

[benson]

Our new set-up will be dry sump. Cost is always the factor, but when you spend 10k on the engine why would you skip the extra 3-4k on a good oiled system?

Our oil pump will be made locally by a engineering firm.

[ewendc2r]

Ok -- Hmmm ... I'm going to pass, but only cause I'm sure another will pop up in the future and i'm sick of eating bread and drinking water lol -- Anyone wants the link i'll pm it..

Thanks for the confirmation.

[ChargeR]

Just putting it out there but what makes a dry sump setup more reliable than an OEM spec oiling system? Or do you mean the oiling system will make the engine more reliable under duress?

I don't think an aftermarket dry sump system will approach the reliability of the OEM Honda oiling system.

As to your question "Why don't we go down this path?" I don't go down this path because I am poor and the engine runs just fine as it is. I would definitely consider it when building a track focused car but there would be a 100 other things on my list to purchase before I bothered with a dry sump.

[ewendc2r]

I guess for several reasons especially with a built engine .. Increased crank vacuum, reduced parasitic drag on crank (oil bath), elimination of oil starvation (Can still happen with a baffled sump -- the baffling just makes it that much harder).. As Benson said, when you've already spent money getting the performance I'd sure as hell want to make sure I make it as reliable as possible.. probably cheaper in the long run too if you buy smart..

I've just spent too much money lately, and my engine is still stock internals.. However given boosting the engine I understand the increased ring seal is effective in finding extra power, esp. at higher boost levels.

My supercharger arrived today

[mattyd]

ive done it.. converted my k20 to a dry sump... its on here somewhere....

i did it because of an inadequate oiling system in the k20 when a high reving full build was done.. dont get me wrong with everything oem the oiling system was good, however after building it i wanted a bit more "insurance"

Other than the increased vaccum, less parasitic drag and increased ring seal... i am running insanely cool oil temps (due to another 5 litres of oil, thats now 10 litres per oil change) a bigger oil cooler and adjustable pressure, a bigger filter ensuring the best possible oil circulating through my engine.

Between this and the standard Radiator the engine temps are well below what they used to be.

There are so many benefits for a dry sump for longevity and reliability. It was well worth the outlay for a built motor!

[ewendc2r]

If you don't mind, what did you invest into your dry sump setup & did you go brand new?
Did you have a dyno before & after? (i.e. trying to identify the actual power gains in addition to the primary reliability requirement)..

Did you install yourself?

[ewendc2r]

... I've also read that a separate vacuum pump can add significant efficiency to the engine (i.e. increase power output at specific rpm). Some reports are saying 15hp from dry sump & another 10hp from vacuum pump.. Interesting..

[mattyd]

Have a look here for info - http://forum.clubitr.com.au/showthread.php?t=6740

Basically, after searching info on a few systems i.e clockwise motion, pace and adr we went with the pace system. It was a kit with a cast sump pan, their own pump, pully and belt. Basically they advertised and told me that this kit would bolt up to the exhaust side of the engine.. it does indeed bolt up to it, however in a front wheel drive configuration, it also is in the way of the driveshaft. We had the biggest face palm moment of all time. So we had to custom fit it, which ended up being a big headache. A/C has now been deleted, and the pump mounted on the intake side of the engine.
Custom pump mounting bracket had to be made etc, this shaved, that shaved etc.
So this all added up to the labour time.

I got the kit brand new from the UK, and therefore had to pay import duty... which also added to the cost.

So basically it was close to $3K for the kit from Pace
A custom made tank $600
Oil filter block adapter $200
New Oil cooler with dash 12 fittings = free as laying around the workshop destined for another project, but would never be used
Lines and fittings - close to $1k
New filters - $80
Labour and consumables - $1500-$2000

So basically about $7000

I helped out on weekends with some work, i couldnt do it all as i have an office job lol


It does need a retune, however i havent had to the time of late to organise and get it done. There was a blatant power increase all over the rev range from my butt dyno. Even my mechanic who barely drives my car noticed it when testing everything
The engine revs quicker and freer. Its just so damn responsive.

As for an added vacuum pump, how much vacuum do you need? Be careful when adding to much vacuum, and remember to allow for enough of a breather in the top end. You dont want to suck the rear main seal out. There is enough of a pull through the block with a 3 stage pump (2 vacuum, 1 pressure in)

Majority of the added power figures will come from larger displacement v8 motors, so be careful when trying to work out if it is purely a power adding mod. Think of it as a safety or insurance mod and any added power is a bonus.

[ewendc2r]

Yeh thats what I thought .. Makes this 5 stage system (Fully fitted / Full kit for bolt on) for $900 sound pretty good, off a drag car with about 100 runs on it lol.. US$900!!

Fark .. I might have to look into this a bit more then .. I like what it improves, ie, reduces required instant/inertia to rotate the crank = snappy throttle..

I don't know re vacuum levels, but this kit has a breather in rocker cover (supplied).. And thats exactly how i'm treating it but given there is a likely power increase I was just curious as to what sort of levels..

I want to retain P/S so need to check this system as unlikely the drag car would have P/S.. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Where does it end?

[mattyd]

Dude for $900USD.. you would be laughing! some peterson 5 stage pumps alone run about $3000AUD even up to $5000AUD!

Drag motor = even better.. they run for 5 mins per run then shut down.

Throttle response is defiantly improved out of sight!

Basically if it works with everything suppied, why change it?!

What engine is it for? what car is the engine going in?
A few measurements should sort out if powersteering can be retained...
there is always electric powersteering pumps (stock standard in toyota mr2s) and electric water pumps to strip all the accessories off your block

lol it doesnt end... ever..

[tinkerbell]

Where does it end?

it ends when you reach the 'goal' set out in your project plan...

otherwise, "never" is the answer...

[ewendc2r]

Hah -- When Time Attack is the goal, and you can never go too quick, there aren't classes etc .. I've stated my goals before.. Never sounds about right.

Yeah its straight of a b18 turbo build drag motor looks like fuck all use (8 hours - 10 hours total use).. Well for the price it seems very hard to go by.. I'll find out some more info.

EDIT -- What I mean is I guess my goal is really limited by budget. I am happy for the path of the car to evolve, as long as its getting quicker ..

[mattyd]

it ends when you reach the 'goal' set out in your project plan...

otherwise, "never" is the answer...

hahahahahaha so true!

there will always be shit to replace/ alter/ get just right