[DC5R CLUTCH] EXEDY Vs. ORC Vs. Toda

[BF]

I would expect all 3 of those clutches to handle the power you will be puting out with that combination, even with cams.

Given that, I guess there is a simple rule that broadly applies in this situation: the better the performance of the clutch the more difficult it will be to drive on a day-to-day basis.

That said, as your familiarity develops, even the most difficult clutches become very manageable with time.

[TODA AU]

You're not comparing apples & apples...

ORC vs TODA Hi Power Single vs Exedy Hyper Single.

The Toda balance organic clutch kit is not a ceramic race clutch.
Ditto Exedy which is a sports road clutch.
The TODA balanced clutches use thinner light weight discs for better high rpm shifting.
To have a comparable Exedy product, you'd need to use a race ceramic.
They don't have a race orgainic,

So compare
TODA balance ceramic vs Exedy Race ceramic vs ORC something??? Maybe not...

[euGeR]

can you explain this further?
what makes the clutch so difficult to downgear without heel and toe? will this cause extra wear? premature wear? too much load?
how much heavier is the feel of the ORC compared to stock?

What makes the ORC difficult for the average driver is the sudden bite. It is comparable to a button clutch (for those who've driven on a button).

Basically, the friction point is minimal. It's almost as though it's either ON or off.

Pedal feel is fairly normal - a touch heavier than OEM

UP gearing is fine and fairly normal.

Down gearing - the average driver will try and release the clutch slowly. On a normal clutch, there's a friction point where it gradually bites in until you release the clutch fully - slip. That is, the normal type clutches allow for slip - This is where the driver might let the revs drop, then as the clutch slips in, the revs climb to match the speed you are travelling.

The ORC does not have this. When you are releasing it to the point where it's almost ON, it will suddenly bite without slipping, causing a big bounce or bang. You can't slip it out slowly. If you heel toe to match the revs (or simply match the revs) the shift is smooth as silk.

This is why the average person can't get used to it in one or two drives. You'll need to spend atleast 2-3 weeks driving the car to get used to it. This makes it difficult if you have other people who have to drive your car - example sister/mum/dad/gf. So basically, the only people who have driven my car other than myself, are guys who can heel toe.

Besides that, The clutch has not slipped once and it has taken some serious punishment, so serious, I need to check that I haven't broken my engine mounts

[Black_Spirit]

ohHhh, icic
thanx for the good info EugeR!

[supernatural]

very well said eug... but after a week of driving and "riding" the clutch... my clutch somehow feels stock... the friction point seem to have "widen" making it much much easier to drive... not too sure if this is normal...but i doubt it... i think ive worn it out after a week of driving??

[BF]

I don't completely agree with the argument that u have to heel and toe the ORC. I managed to downshift smoothly without heel and toe. Tony can vouch for that.

[T-BaGGeR]

how can you downshift smoothly without heel toe? unless you ride the clutch?

[TODA AU]

how can you downshift smoothly without heel toe? unless you ride the clutch?

Exactly...

Could be you guys are talking about the difference between sprung & unsprung centra discs also.
As some ORC's centre's are sprung, some are not.
The sprung centre unit is a little less aggressive & more forgiving to drive smoothly.

Unless you're a fanatic,
I'd recommend you stay away from full blown race clutches for the road.
Heaps of fun, sure but if you're not used to them & you ride them, they're wear out much faster than a std style organic clutch.
This can be an expensive learning curve.
I would love to use a Hi power single in my car but as it's my daily driver & I have to navigate traffic (and keep it wife freindly) I use a balanced organic flywheel clutch combo.

[BF]

how can you downshift smoothly without heel toe? unless you ride the clutch?

I don't remember saying I didn't ride the clutch. I'm not sure how possible it is to drive the ORC daily and smoothly without riding the clutch to some degree? That said, if I was riding the clutch it wasnt noticeable and the clutch is still going after more than 2 years and many many thousands of kms.

In any case, I agree with Adrian, it is a bit fanatical to put this style of clutch in a predominately street driven car. I don't think I'd do it again, but it could be me getting old and prefering a car that is easy to drive.

[atmoek]

I would love to use a Hi power single in my car but as it's my daily driver & I have to navigate traffic (and keep it wife freindly) I use a balanced organic flywheel clutch combo.

soft!!!! LOL go the hi power single!

from personal exsperiance i reccomend the toda hi power single very good on the track doesn't bother me for street use but i also live in the sticks so i dont really hit traffic as bad as city slikkers!
but personal opinion is
track use 10/10

[revolution]

Just got an Exedy Sports Organic installed last Friday. Bites alot faster than my standard clutch on my DC5R. A little heavier than stock but is quite street friendly. Still not used to the friction point where it just bites suddenly, so I have stalled the cars a few times alreat *doh*...

Thanks Adrian for the clutch mate!!

[air23box]

very well said eug... but after a week of driving and "riding" the clutch... my clutch somehow feels stock... the friction point seem to have "widen" making it much much easier to drive... not too sure if this is normal...but i doubt it... i think ive worn it out after a week of driving??

Just because you get used to it bro......

[endymiony2k]

sorry this may be stupid to ask. Does the change of the lightened flywheel affect the roadworthness of the car? I am in Melbourne btw. Would that affect by insurance as well?

I have been thinking to upgrade a clutch+flywheel combo for street driving. Would someone pls summarize the comparison of the organic, cermaic and the single power clutch? like the pedal feel, clutch life, nosie level, ease of use, etc. =)

[SUZUKA-R さん]

well a lightened flywheel makes your revs more responsive to input. why would it affect your insurance?

ive had the ORC clutch n fly combo for about 1.5 months now feels great. only downfall was when i had to run in the clutch that was a killer many times i have stalled her. the single power ORC bites hard and for the 1st week was damn hard to get use to from a thrashed n worn out OEM clutch. you have to rev higher for it to bite and when it does it throws you forward. but after weeks you get use to it for the time it runs in and you getting use to the feel everything balances out, very powerful and can cope a thrashing highly recommended.

of course with most clutches when they are new its very stiff but with the ORC its very stiff with a limited friction point to play with but its something you get use to. clutch life was something i was worried about in the beginning, it'll last relative to most other clutches in its class, really depends on your driving though. noise level is one i like =P, as you clutch in you hear a "sccchh" noise. at idle at the lights about 80% of time it makes a rail sort of noise a very mild twin plate imitating sound.

toda combo is something to consider as well, its a personal preferrence no advantage in having an ORC or TODA or EXEDY in terms of a single power clutch flywheel kit.

organic clutch is a bit more friendly to the daily driver in my opnion.

btw. misconception flywheel does not make your car a whole lot faster. though when you plant it you can see the revs climb a bit quicker but more so responsive-ness. revs become a tad more sensitive.

well that is my 2 cents, hope that will aid your decision

[endymiony2k]

SUZUKA-R, nice write up man I think i might try the hi-single power clutch combo. Did you change ur engine mount as well? I m a bit short on budget and thinking to get mugen mount. Do you think engine mounts are ones that must be replaced when HD clutch is changed?