Rear Trailing Arm bush replacement DC2

[bennjamin]

where do you get the OEM rubbers from>? AFAIK - you have to buy the RT whole arm...

Prothane make replacements push-in ones,

but the ES ones cost me $13.25ea so i guess the 8 hours it took to do both sides was reflected in this saving...

cheers for the obvious answer
BTW i bought my OEM bushes in the metal "shell" from Honda @ Rick damelian...
only $48 each cost price but you are the winner with savings.

[euGeR]

BTW - any sydney-siders can borrow my bearing press if required....

How about labour? How much are you charging?

[eg5]

Nice DIY article .

[freakygeek]

I'd be interested if anyone knows about the effects of a non-rubber (stiffer) bush in the RTA's as they are designed to twist on different axes. The effects on the suspension geometry may change the rear wheel toe & camber angles under various load situations compared with the OEM rubber bush.

[tinkerbell]

The effects on the suspension geometry may change the rear wheel toe & camber angles under various load situations compared with the OEM rubber bush.

again, there will be no way for me to tell, as the bushes that were repalced were broken for my life of the car.

sorry.

I can't confirm or deny your internet myth freaky

[freakygeek]

Internet myth.. LOL... look, I'm not necessarily saying an aftermarket bushing is going to be better or worse, I just want to know the effects. Clearly others experience this phenomenon as highlighted by the site below's comments relating to RTA bushings....

http://www.aj-racing.com/catalog/pro...p?productid=37

"Under acceleration, weight naturally transfers to the rear wheels. When this occurs, a great deal of force is placed upon the lower trailing arm bushing. When the trailing arm bushing is compressed, the suspension assumes more toe out, thereby hurting acceleration and high speed stability. This can be counteracted with stiffer trailing arm bushings. Likewise, under cornering, more force is placed on the outer trailing arm bushing. A stiffer bushing improves handling response, stability, and the predictability of the car's rear. Alex's Trailing Arm Bushing is actually a Mugen unit that has been modified by Alex. Alex fills the Mugen bushing with urethane, substantially increasing the stiffness."

[freakygeek]

Also thsi thread has some detailed explanation of what I was referring to.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=606414

[tinkerbell]

why dont you have a bit of a think about how the RT arm operates "under all conditions" and then provide some analysis of what you think might happen "under all conditions"...

then we could discuss what we think might be a result of any changes that you have identified (ie "the phenomena") might occur when replacing a rubber bush with a stiffer one...

[tinkerbell]

Also thsi thread has some detailed explanation of what I was referring to.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=606414

please feel free to sumarise the main points of that thread, and we can take it from there...

IMO - RR98 was talking out his ass when he came up with that... it is all conjecture...

[freakygeek]

please feel free to sumarise the main points of that thread, and we can take it from there...

IMO - RR98 was talking out his ass when he came up with that... it is all conjecture...

"So, there it is - the outside rear is being dynamically steered inward toward the cg and contributing to our basic understeer problem.

What can we do?

The stiffer Mugen trailing arm bushings reduce the rearward deflection under braking. This reduces some of the induced toe-in factor under braking. In conjunction with the narrower envelope associated with race spring rates and use of harder bushings elsewhere in the system it's a useful item."

Clearly the RTA bush affects the loaded rear wheels' toe angle in cornering. This is part of the design of the DC2R rear suspension. All I was simply asking was "what are the real world effects of this".


Anyway, I'm pushing shit up hill here since this whole thing is just an internet myth.

[tinkerbell]

both sites seem to indicate that you want stiffer bushes to improve handling,

is that a correct summation?

[freakygeek]

both sites seem to indicate that you want stiffer bushes to improve handling,

is that a correct summation?

Fair enough, I wanted some constructive discussion on the matter, the effects on cornering and braking loads on the new bushings etc...

But please just spare me next time of the condescending attitude, and referring to my theory as "internet myth".

[tinkerbell]

I'd be interested if anyone knows about the effects of a non-rubber (stiffer) bush in the RTA's as they are designed to twist on different axes. The effects on the suspension geometry may change the rear wheel toe & camber angles under various load situations compared with the OEM rubber bush.

so, can i ask you which suspension geometry changes will be different compared with the OEM bush?

the myth IMO - is that Poly bushes behave completely differently when compared to OEM rubber ones...

it is hard to see how they could, and going from what you posted, neither do most people...

[fueltank]

I reckon polybushes would be the same just movement would be restricted.

Similar to poly motor mounts, the motor still moves in same directions just not as much.

[tinkerbell]

and for info, this is what ES says about their product:

Rear Trailing Arm Bushings
With the increased use of higher traction and performance tires on today's front wheel drive vehicles soft original factory rubber bushings can often allow the suspension to require upgraded bushings.

Energy's re-engineered performance polyurethane rear trailing arm bushings help the vehicle maintain proper rear alignment toe and caster settings under all high performance driving conditions. Great to use on the street or race track!

(my underline added)