BAD Handling DC2 Integra Type R

[teggzy]

Going in the for the alignment at G88 this afternoon

[RC_dc2]

The thickness of the sway bar isn't the only factor that determines its effect. design, construction, solid/hollow, adjustability anchor points all have a say on its function.

Yes, but it is one of the main factors in changing the torsional stiffness of the bar, considering it uses the same mounting points as stock then the lever arm length should be the same.

Whiteline don't even list it for the type r on their website, I am thinking it is only an "upgrade" if you have a Gsi with 22mm diameter stock bar.

This was a side point anyway as it is not the OP's problem, I was just surprised anyone would bother buying the whiteline front bar, especially when putting 16kgmm front springs in since they will already increase the roll stiffness plenty without changing the ARB.

[teggzy]

This was a side point anyway as it is not the OP's problem, I was just surprised anyone would bother buying the whiteline front bar, especially when putting 16kgmm front springs in since they will already increase the roll stiffness plenty without changing the ARB.

At the time, i was told that the sway bar will improve my handling, they stopped manufacturing it, but i will get a link up..

http://www.wolfracingproducts.com.au...ble-p-989.html

Sorry, the sway bar is actually 27mm, solid and it is set on the the hardest setting... :| this could be my issue..

[amee-reb]

At the time, i was told that the sway bar will improve my handling, they stopped manufacturing it, but i will get a link up..

http://www.wolfracingproducts.com.au...ble-p-989.html

Sorry, the sway bar is actually 27mm, solid and it is set on the the hardest setting... :| this could be my issue..

rear sway bar? on the hardest setting? yea that might very well be the problem. as i said before i had the same issue on my track car. i kept over steering into the corners and spinning out. after i softened the rear sway bar and dampers it fixed it self.

[teggzy]

rear sway bar? on the hardest setting? yea that might very well be the problem. as i said before i had the same issue on my track car. i kept over steering into the corners and spinning out. after i softened the rear sway bar and dampers it fixed it self.

No amee, this is for the front sway bar.

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[T-BaGGeR]

Teggzy,

It sounds like nearly everything that you have done is all kinds of wrong for the handling you want. Like someone above said. Return back to stock and take your time to do more research on suspension theory.

[Apu]

No offence meant but I suspect you've modified the car well beyond your driving abilities. Revert to stock, go to the track, get an experienced driver to set a time and then start working on it.

[teggzy]

No offence meant but I suspect you've modified the car well beyond your driving abilities. Revert to stock, go to the track, get an experienced driver to set a time and then start working on it.

Spoke to the alignment shop, im putting most of the stock parts in this weekend and working on from there.. he just told me to put my sway bar on a softer setting, also that i might want to purchase a thicked rear sway bar.

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[Fallenangel]

Thats a good idea to revert back to stock. I'm probably just reiterating on what the guys have said before but here goes;

16kg front spring is STUPIDLY stiff. My DC2 is pretty much a track car with number plates and i've got 12/10 and its pretty damn bad already for the streets. Your setup isn't recommended in general because its too harsh on the chassis and the rest of the car's suspension + tyres are not set up for this kind of stiffness. If you were to get a set of coilovers, i would suggest a spring rate of 8/6 OR 10/8 if you want a fairly stiff setup but nothing higher than that.

45PSI is stupid full stop. Hopefully thats at least 45PSI HOT. I would imagine the car feeling like it was driving on ice at those pressures. Generally you should run around 33PSI Cold on the street as it warms to around 38PSI HOT which is about the limit for which you want to push a street tyre. However if you do drive more aggressively 30PSI Cold would be ideal. Street tyres generally give way or blow @ 55PSI (trust me i've made my mistakes)

The front swaybar would be causing issues with a stupidly stiff front making understeer prone. Ditch it and revert back to stock. If you are really keen on a swaybar (i wouldn't recommend at this stage however) at least have a fatter sway bar on the rear compared to the front. This will give you a sharper initial turn in which is ideal for driving. My suggestion is to switch to stock swaybars, but refresh all the bushing and links with stiffer ones (hardrace/whiteline etc).

Also you NEED an alignment when changing something major in the suspension, i.e. coilovers. It throws everything out of wack and can cause unstability with the car (i'm sure you have noticed). Not sure if anyone has mentioned ideal specs to give but for a street car i'd suggest at MOST. 2deg Camber front, 1deg Camber Rear, Zero Toe all round, Caster you can't really adjust but ideally positive or zero.

I'm sure we all understand that you're still learning the ropes but the guys here are experienced and really know what they're talking about. I was in the same mindset as you back awhile ago however you learn from that.

Well whatever you do is up to you, but everyone here is more than happy to help with suggestions, its up to you if you want to listen.

Good Luck

[freakygeek]

As tinkerbell said... the DC2R factory balance (in all conditions) is very hard to beat.

You can make compromises by improving the cars handling for a specific purpose ie. Billiard table smooth tracks... but in doing so reduce its performance on choppy public roads.

Knowing this, it should mean that you have a goal in mind when modifying the car. You want the best handling and balance for the street, for all weather conditions with usable ride comfort? Leave it stock. Seriously. Put some good tyres and brakes on it and enjoy the adjustable on limit handing Honda spent so much to achieve.

If you need more convincing, try and keep up with my stock-suspension DC2R on the Oxley highway twisties sometime

[teggzy]

Thats a good idea to revert back to stock. I'm probably just reiterating on what the guys have said before but here goes;

16kg front spring is STUPIDLY stiff. My DC2 is pretty much a track car with number plates and i've got 12/10 and its pretty damn bad already for the streets. Your setup isn't recommended in general because its too harsh on the chassis and the rest of the car's suspension + tyres are not set up for this kind of stiffness. If you were to get a set of coilovers, i would suggest a spring rate of 8/6 OR 10/8 if you want a fairly stiff setup but nothing higher than that.

45PSI is stupid full stop. Hopefully thats at least 45PSI HOT. I would imagine the car feeling like it was driving on ice at those pressures. Generally you should run around 33PSI Cold on the street as it warms to around 38PSI HOT which is about the limit for which you want to push a street tyre. However if you do drive more aggressively 30PSI Cold would be ideal. Street tyres generally give way or blow @ 55PSI (trust me i've made my mistakes)

The front swaybar would be causing issues with a stupidly stiff front making understeer prone. Ditch it and revert back to stock. If you are really keen on a swaybar (i wouldn't recommend at this stage however) at least have a fatter sway bar on the rear compared to the front. This will give you a sharper initial turn in which is ideal for driving. My suggestion is to switch to stock swaybars, but refresh all the bushing and links with stiffer ones (hardrace/whiteline etc).

Also you NEED an alignment when changing something major in the suspension, i.e. coilovers. It throws everything out of wack and can cause unstability with the car (i'm sure you have noticed). Not sure if anyone has mentioned ideal specs to give but for a street car i'd suggest at MOST. 2deg Camber front, 1deg Camber Rear, Zero Toe all round, Caster you can't really adjust but ideally positive or zero.

I'm sure we all understand that you're still learning the ropes but the guys here are experienced and really know what they're talking about. I was in the same mindset as you back awhile ago however you learn from that.

Well whatever you do is up to you, but everyone here is more than happy to help with suggestions, its up to you if you want to listen.

Good Luck

Hey,

I'm really grateful for the advice given, getting some oem bushings from yonas some time soon.

I have put the tyre pressure down to about 35 psi, it has made a difference, but i really do need to change these tyres as theres too much sidewall flex, especially having wrong sized tyres fitted onto the car...

I think i'll keep the coilovers in there for now and see how i go with the alignment.

Once again, i really do appreciate the advice.

[teggzy]

As tinkerbell said... the DC2R factory balance (in all conditions) is very hard to beat.

You can make compromises by improving the cars handling for a specific purpose ie. Billiard table smooth tracks... but in doing so reduce its performance on choppy public roads.

Knowing this, it should mean that you have a goal in mind when modifying the car. You want the best handling and balance for the street, for all weather conditions with usable ride comfort? Leave it stock. Seriously. Put some good tyres and brakes on it and enjoy the adjustable on limit handing Honda spent so much to achieve.

If you need more convincing, try and keep up with my stock-suspension DC2R on the Oxley highway twisties sometime

I'm sure ill have a really hard time keeping up haha, i f****d up with the changes i made, sometimes going for the most expensive bit's aren't the best choice.

[Apu]

Too lazy to read the whole thread...but you talk about sidewall flex - what tyres (and size) are you using that you experience sidewall flex on the street?

I get a bit of "sidewall flex" at the track but yet to encounter it on the street...unless you are running 60 profile tyres.

[freakygeek]

Too lazy to read the whole thread...but you talk about sidewall flex - what tyres (and size) are you using that you experience sidewall flex on the street?

I get a bit of "sidewall flex" at the track but yet to encounter it on the street...unless you are running 60 profile tyres.

He has the incorrect size tyre (too wide/tall) on the OEM wheel which would be definitely causing some "squishyness" in feel.

[Setanta]

I'm not surprised Tink cracked it. OP, you got fed a whole ton of advertising material and internet BS. Tink has been doing this for decades, I remember his XSi 'teg back in the days that I had an EF9 and it was a sweetly set up little beast.

Your biggest p[roblem that most are alluding to is that you don't have a plan as to how your suspension mods will work together. This resulted in them... not. Could I suggest that the only advantage of coilovers compared to stock DC2R suspension is height adjustment? Journalists raved about the handling off the factory floor and did so with good reason. Use the article Tink linked and work out what you want to do to make your car handle better rather than just bolting items on because it says it's better. I'm surprised Adrian told you 50 PSI - I cringed when you said you had 45psi in the tyres. To put it in perspective, I run 32psi in my 205/45/16 Federal 595 RS-R semi-slicks on the road and I can tell you right now there's no sidewall flex. I move them to 34PSI for an interstate run and then back to 32 for the day to day (not that I do a lot of either). In conjunction with the right sized tyres, the TEIN superstreets the PO fitted give a beautiful neutral feel with a tendency to understeer at the extreme because I like it that way for the street. Having said that, I did get a bit taily once at Wakefield. On 15s that I picked up from Apu on standard tires I'll be damned if I can feel sidewall flex either - at 34 PSI. The 15s with slicks that I bought off Tink I used at 38psi at Wakefield after starting with 40 - after I asked him his suggestion for my car. Damn things were so sticky when heated up it wasn't funny and I didn't find it necessary to mess with them.

Over decades of modifying cars, the one thing I've learned is to research, research, research. Even then I occasionally do one or two things wrong (yes E30 sub-frame risers, I'm looking at you!). Work out what your car is for. Street or track. Design your package and then run it by a specialist before you buy. By specialist I mean someone who has done it before. Ask people what they did as a whole package and copy them, but don't buy a bit here and there and expect results. BTW, I get a wheel alignment every time the coilover height on either of my cars changes, even by a few mm - for peace of mind.