Oil leak about 1000km after clutch replacement

[poeter]

Hi guys,

I need some advice here as I've discovered a leak with my ep3. I done my clutch about 1 month ago with a workshop but when i first spotted the wet patch I was dreading myself that it maybe the rear main seal not being installed properly by my mechanic. My car never had a leak (Apart from some slow seepage through the valve cover and front crank seal) before until this.





So I've undone the clutch cover plate to get a peak and found that the engine side looks dry but if peer into the side facing the gearbox, i can see some wet patches. This leads me to suspect that I'm leaking transmission oil from the input shaft rather than the rear main seal.

I did recall my mechanic fill the transmission oil from the speedo sensor hole, and not sure if overfilling may cause this.

I've checked the driveshafts area, looks relatively dry aside the gap from the bellhousing




Nothing came out of the breather. Took the rubber bit out to look underneath it, it's a bit moist but i assume that's just normal. Wiped down the oil patch and see how fast it would come back.

Went back to the workshop for a look as the oil leaks at the bottom has returned after 3hours of driving. This time they looked a bit further and they've suspect it might be valve cover gasket as there is a bit of seepage from the back.

However it's not overwhelmingly obvious because the seepage does not look wet enough to suggest it is the primary source of leak such that it seeped through the mating surface between the engine block and transmission bellhousing. The valve cover gasket is not ruled out since the mechanic suggest it may also be possible that over time that the seepage will lead to a build up of oil down below due the gravity.

So he's sprayed brake cleaner on the back of the engine block and will have to see if the leak is visible on both areas, rear of valve cover and bottom of the transmission bell housing.

Has anyone seen this issue before?

Another guy in the UK has the almost the same problem description as me

http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/sh...highlight=leak

but the poor guy didn't get any replies.

[felixR]

Did your mechanic re-use the rear main seal or using a brand new one?

[tinkerbell]

rear main seal should not be removed for a clutch instal unless it is being replaced with a new one.

[poeter]

Thanks for the reply guys.

Yes, the rear main seal had been replaced with a brand new one. Part# 91214PNA014

So far the bottom half of the rear main seal looks dry. Not sure if it is spewing oil from the top half of it. (Transmission will need to come off to see the top half unfortunately, can only see what's visible when the black flywheel cover plate as per first picture)

Also. so far the clutch still functions smoothly and operates as expected. No unusual noise or behaviour when shifting through gears. No slippage or shudder, still functions like new which I think suggests that my clutch has not been contaminated with oil (yet).

[poeter]

Update:

Went back to the workshop, had the main mechanic look at it and he thinks it's rear the main seal after checking through the endoscope. As expected, the box needs to be pulled out again.

At this stage, things look grim for me because it sounds like I will be footing the bill for the job because I SUPPLIED the seal and the workshop is not responsible for it. In my mind, I agree that it's not their responsibility if the part I supplied is faulty. It really shocks me that the rear main seal is faulty from factory. It's a Honda genuine part and I ordered it from amayama.com who is a legitimate business. It's the right part number as per parts catalog for my car and engine number. They agree that I got correct part, they haven't inferred that I supplied the wrong part but more so it was a faulty one.


I guess it was just bloody bad luck on my side ?? T_T

[ChargeR]

Bad luck guy. I'd consider it extremely unlikely that an OEM Honda rear main seal would fail out of the box though...

[tinkerbell]

that's bullshit.

if it is indeed a faulty part - then:

it is THEIR fault for not checking the part before fitting it.

it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that ANY part they fit is fit for the purpose - regardless of who supplies the part.

indeed - a RMS is not likely to be faulty from manufacturing.

it is MORE likely that in fitting the part (in which you use a HAMMER) has lead to incorrect sealing of the part, or even damage to the part during fitting.

all of the above said - i have never felt (via my 'spidy senses') that this is a RMS problem, mroe likely a problem around the head.

rule out ALL other possible leaks prior to removing the gearbox.

call the Department of Fair Trading to confirm what your rights and their responsibilities are in this situation:

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ft...ntact_us.page?

[poeter]

that's bullshit.

all of the above said - i have never felt (via my 'spidy senses') that this is a RMS problem, mroe likely a problem around the head.

Have checked around the head for the past few nights after driving home from work, still pretty dry since the last time brake cleaner was used. Also checked the mating area between engine and transmission from above but found no oil.


Regarding the workshop, not gonna mention any names but they're pretty popular for doing Hondas in Sydney. For the time being I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and see how things turn out.


However, there is one anomaly I found with their method of installation, was that they tapped the seal in with a punch/drift punch or what it is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_(tool). Not sure if this technique is good practice.

Typically, the seal is installed with a special tool or huge socket of similar shape.

Capture.jpg

Although this is kind hard for me to argue because I would imagine he didn't use the special tool on the many ep3s he worked on from other customers and came out no problem. I also personally know alot of the ep3 owners who had them worked on and so I don't think the mechanic is bluffing me.

FML

[tinkerbell]

I would imagine he didn't use the special tool on the many ep3s he worked on

i install crank seals with a piece of wood, and never had a problem.

regardless, it is their responsibility to install parts that are fit for the purpose.

with any 'highly regarded' and Honda focused workshop - one would imagine they are up to the task of identifying a faulty part before installing it...

i learned a long time ago that even the most highly regarded workshops can get sloppy... i was working on a car that had been in such a workshop, and surprised the owner of the car by showing him that i was re-installing a fuel line clamp that had been left un attached.

[poeter]

one would imagine they are up to the task of identifying a faulty part before installing it...

Just out of curiosity, usually what would one need to look out for when inspecting a new RMS?


Here's how it looked after installation.



Here's what it looked like prior to remove the old one.

[tinkerbell]

you'd look for damage to the seal itself, such as a missing spring, or a tear, or cut, or deformity in the inner seal surface

however, the area into which the seal is installed is where you must be most diligent, as any debris, or gunk, or detritus must be absent from the area into which the seal is pressed.

even just a tiny but of stuiff can create a pathway for the oil to escape.

simply looking at a pressed in seal cannot reveal what is actually behind the seal between the rotating crankshaft and the stationary seal.

[tinkerbell]

10256214_10151966645306945_8485754912706181519_n.jpg

those areas show *very slight* evidence of oil descending.

but not to the extent that would cause the leak you show in your first pictures...

[tinkerbell]

i re-read your first post.

maybe check teh gearbox was not overfilled with oil.

[poeter]

i re-read your first post.

maybe check teh gearbox was not overfilled with oil.

Previous 2 visits to workshop have confirmed that the transmission level appears ok twice (only slightly overfilled - a small stream of oil comes when the filler bolt is removed).

In their opinion, the transmission oil level being slightly overfilled is not something to be alarmed of. Secondly, they noticed there was no oil being released from the breather located near where the shifter mechanisms. Finally, from today's visit the main mechanic has confirmed that the leak is definitely engine oil due to the coloring and scent of it. If I remember correctly, transmission oil has a very repugnant smell - almost like cat pee but this was not the case today.

[poeter]

If one was to notice smudged grease/silicone like the picture below, can this be fixed on the spot or would it already been consider as ruined and maybe a cause for the leak?

I bought two of these at the time, this is the second RMS which I bought for my brother's ep3 and this is how it came out of the original factory packet.