DC5R 03 - CMC & Immobiliser problem

[Norm]

Body: DC5R 03

Question or problem:
1. Clutch pedal has no resistance.
2. Car does not recgonise key

Modifications

• Aftermarket Alarm
• Car has been stripped and re-assembled
• Kpro
• No aftermarket clutch master cylinder, and clutch master cylinder and slave was working fine before dissemble.

1. I have attempted to bleed the clutch as per diagram below in the 02-06 RSX manual, however have come across the difficulty as there is no pressure/resistance in the pedal when i'm bleeding it. There was very minor fluid coming out, however ceased as we couldn't build up pressure in the clutch master cylinder. There are no visible leaks inside the pedal area and the CMC was working fine before I stripped the car. What can I do? Should I consider removing the CMC and replacing it?


2. I've de-activated the immobiliser through Kpro, however because the car won't even start, the Kpro manager does not even pick it up. Has these happened to anyone before? And is the only solution to take it to Honda for reprogramming?

Norm

[butter]

1. From past experience, it sounds like you have air inside your CMC. Do you believe you may have pumped the clutch pedal and sucked in some air? Once air is inside the CMC, its very difficult to expel the pocket of air out from simply pressing on the clutch pedal to push it out. You may have to 'suck' out the fluid rather than push it out. Might need to look into a turkey baster kind of device.

2. Have you tried using your original ECU to start the car? Is the Kpro even working? Plug the kpro into your computer/laptop without it plugged into the car. The USB cable has sufficient power to read run the ECU and pick it up.

[Norm]

1. I do suspect air inside the CMC. I would of thought the conventional method of bleeding would remove it. I will attempt to remove the CMC and manually either force liquid in, or manually suck the air out.

2. The Original ECU is the one which got Kpro'd. I have no other ECU. I have attempted the USB cable plug-in to the computer. Would not pick it up unfortunately. I will however follow the instructions below from my consult with my tuner and see how it goes,

Hi Norman

Go to this website
http://www.hondata.com/downloads.html

download the latest version of kmanager v 1.5.1

plug the usb cable into your kpro, and the other end of cable to yoru laptop

switch on car, it should auto detect and install the driver itself


and then, open this attached file and try to load it into the car by pressing “Ctrl-U”

then wait 30 seconds, then try to start the car again


MAKE SURE THE GROUNDING CABLE ON TOP OF INTAKE MANIFOLD IS SECURED

[butter]

Having issues with a clutch fluid bleed myself today. I've got the same issues as you reported above, however when the clutch is pressed down, a decent amount of fluid is actually being flushed out the hose attached to the slave cylinder bleed valve.
I will also attempt to take out the cmc tomorrow and I'll fill up the cmc full of fluid before installing it, and I'll report back tomorrow night.

Is your kpro even working when you just plug it into the laptop via USB?
Mine is detected and I've never plugged it into the car before. Could it be a faulty ECU?

[Norm]

1. CMC - Will take it apart tomorrow and attempting to bleed it from two locations, one directly into the CMC and second from the closest clutch line into the slave cylinder with a syringe.

2. We've fix the starting issue. It had nothing to do with the kpro and had everything to do with carelessness in wiring. There are 3 connects to the ECU, all were intact and connect, however there was also another plug off the same harness which was not plugged in. I will upload a picture indicating which plug was not plugged in.



The wire highlighted in yellow was the one not plugged in. The 3 other plugs which are not plugged in are the ones that are plugged into the ECU.

Signs and symptoms which indicated a non-faulty krpo
1. The green + red light were present on key start whilst plugged into the comp with the Kpro manager online.
2. Kpro manager stated "Driver online" and "On-line"
3. The device manager on the computer indicated that the USB Hondata Kpro was installed correctly

What I had problems was with the computer detecting the ECU. Again, I will upload photos later tonight show you what I mean. Reached a milestone in my car build, we've turned the key and the engine started

[butter]

Didn't get around to finishing off the CMC, but the fellow ClubITR member eskimo_firefighter reported that, he just kept on going with the pumping of the fluid until it went from, 30-40 pumps to empty the fluid to Min. to about 5-7 pumps to get to Min.
Also reported that air bubbles were being expelled.
So it seems we were doing the right method (as your posted instructions), but just needed to keep on going at it for a while.

[ChargeR]

As above, just keep at it. The last couple of times I've had to do the clutch bleeding on a DC5 it has taken a long time and a lot of pumps.

Regarding the immobiliser on a Kpro'd ECU, if it's the original ECU from your car you don't need to disable the immobiliser in Kmanager.

[M@lew]

Another tip for the CMC is make sure you're opening the valve wide enough. We spent a good 10 minutes pumping only to fail, then we tried again but opened the valve even more (you'll know when it's open because the fluid will start flowing like crazy and you'll have to top up the fluid almost constantly) and we were done in a few minutes with a nice firm clutch.

The learning - We weren't opening the valve enough even though we thought we were.

[Norm]

As above, just keep at it. The last couple of times I've had to do the clutch bleeding on a DC5 it has taken a long time and a lot of pumps.

Regarding the immobiliser on a Kpro'd ECU, if it's the original ECU from your car you don't need to disable the immobiliser in Kmanager.

Yeh I took the CMC out to have a closer inspect, and the one way valve was doing its job. Fill it up and put it back in. A pain in the arse to align back into the slot though, and did take a long time with numerous of pumps!
Regarding the immobiliser, I think my tuner just advised me to disable it in the kmanager just in case. But ultimately, it was a plug which wasn't connected that caused the issue.

Didn't get around to finishing off the CMC, but the fellow ClubITR member eskimo_firefighter reported that, he just kept on going with the pumping of the fluid until it went from, 30-40 pumps to empty the fluid to Min. to about 5-7 pumps to get to Min.
Also reported that air bubbles were being expelled.
So it seems we were doing the right method (as your posted instructions), but just needed to keep on going at it for a while.

Yeh. I kept at it with my brother and finally the clutch built up enough pressure. I ended also using a vice-grip to hold the slave master cylinder in place to expel any airbubbles at that end too.

Another tip for the CMC is make sure you're opening the valve wide enough. We spent a good 10 minutes pumping only to fail, then we tried again but opened the valve even more (you'll know when it's open because the fluid will start flowing like crazy and you'll have to top up the fluid almost constantly) and we were done in a few minutes with a nice firm clutch.

The learning - We weren't opening the valve enough even though we thought we were.

Aaah. Our valve was opened fine! lots of discharged!


Moral of the story - If CMC is fine on inspection, continue bleeding as per instructions. They should just mention alot of "pumping" action required