Green EK4

[RC_dc2]

Nice read, your car seems to hold up alright and you are getting out there a fair bit.

I see you mentioned under steer issues and that you are running 18F/7R Spring rates on mca blues. We're these "off the shelf" rates they gave you?

Seems to me that these would be one of the biggest contributors to your understeer. Have you tried a higher rate in the rear?

[iwearmoccos]

Nice read, your car seems to hold up alright and you are getting out there a fair bit.

I see you mentioned under steer issues and that you are running 18F/7R Spring rates on mca blues. We're these "off the shelf" rates they gave you?

Seems to me that these would be one of the biggest contributors to your understeer. Have you tried a higher rate in the rear?

These were the spring rates suggested after a few emails about what I was going to be using this car for.
I haven't tried a stiffer spring in the rear, what spring would you suggest going up to?
Winton next month should hopefully see some improvements due to my 0 toe in the rear, but I'm always open to suggestions.

[RC_dc2]

These were the spring rates suggested after a few emails about what I was going to be using this car for.
I haven't tried a stiffer spring in the rear, what spring would you suggest going up to?
Winton next month should hopefully see some improvements due to my 0 toe in the rear, but I'm always open to suggestions.

Well, I would think that MCA would have a good idea. I'm a little surprised that's what they would suggest. Very rough calcs based on my setup 18/7kg would be about equal f/r ride frequency approx 2.5hz? (That number is pretty rough calc based on dc2 chassis). I would try increasing the rear or lowering the front rate a bit, usually a higher rear ride rate compared to front would be desirable but then again it is personal preference. You seem to be getting pretty good times already.

What diameter is your rear arb?

As an example my setup is 6/4. Now that is extremely soft for a Honda on a track car but the balance is a lot more neutral but still tendency to understeer when pushed too hard. I was actually planning on getting a set of mca blues too.

What do you think of them in general? Does it feel OK in the front with 18kg springs?

[iwearmoccos]

Well, I would think that MCA would have a good idea. I'm a little surprised that's what they would suggest. Very rough calcs based on my setup 18/7kg would be about equal f/r ride frequency approx 2.5hz? (That number is pretty rough calc based on dc2 chassis). I would try increasing the rear or lowering the front rate a bit, usually a higher rear ride rate compared to front would be desirable but then again it is personal preference. You seem to be getting pretty good times already.

What diameter is your rear arb?

As an example my setup is 6/4. Now that is extremely soft for a Honda on a track car but the balance is a lot more neutral but still tendency to understeer when pushed too hard. I was actually planning on getting a set of mca blues too.

What do you think of them in general? Does it feel OK in the front with 18kg springs?

The suggested is very similar to the setup friends are running on their MCAs also, I'm not too educated on it all so took their word for it and overall they suit most of my requirements.
The understeer issues seem to be most prevalent at Winton, other thoughts being that I'm carrying too much speed into corners and the rear toe setup as mentioned previously. I've tried increasing the dampening in the rear, and currently run it two 'clicks' stiffer than MCA out of the box suggestions, but going any further than that didn't see an increase in turn in when I played with it at the last two day EXE Winton.

I'm not sure what you mean by 2.5hz, but will Google. There seems to be a number of articles already referencing your terminology.

Rear arb is 24mm, the ASR setup and is on the 'soft' setting. The struts and end links don't allow me to put it on the 'hard' setting, unless I mount the end link on the inside which would mean changing the mounting point on the LCA.

In general I'm really happy with them. They've been able to do what I had envisioned and have done a heap of work without any issues. 18kg spring isn't exactly a comfortable daily setup, though that is not what I had in mind with the car.
This is also the first set of coilovers I've ever owned, previous cars I've just had strut and spring setups.

Once/if they start to leak, I do plan to send them back and have them rebuilt to Red spec so I can compare the difference in the dampening setups and what an extra $1000 gets you, though at this stage they haven't had any problems.

It's all a learning experience for me. It's obvious I enjoy the driving more than the mechanical side, though I do know I need to cover off the mechanical side as well.

[RC_dc2]

The suggested is very similar to the setup friends are running on their MCAs also, I'm not too educated on it all so took their word for it and overall they suit most of my requirements.
The understeer issues seem to be most prevalent at Winton, other thoughts being that I'm carrying too much speed into corners and the rear toe setup as mentioned previously. I've tried increasing the dampening in the rear, and currently run it two 'clicks' stiffer than MCA out of the box suggestions, but going any further than that didn't see an increase in turn in when I played with it at the last two day EXE Winton.

I'm not sure what you mean by 2.5hz, but will Google. There seems to be a number of articles already referencing your terminology.

Rear arb is 24mm, the ASR setup and is on the 'soft' setting. The struts and end links don't allow me to put it on the 'hard' setting, unless I mount the end link on the inside which would mean changing the mounting point on the LCA.

In general I'm really happy with them. They've been able to do what I had envisioned and have done a heap of work without any issues. 18kg spring isn't exactly a comfortable daily setup, though that is not what I had in mind with the car.
This is also the first set of coilovers I've ever owned, previous cars I've just had strut and spring setups.

Once/if they start to leak, I do plan to send them back and have them rebuilt to Red spec so I can compare the difference in the dampening setups and what an extra $1000 gets you, though at this stage they haven't had any problems.

It's all a learning experience for me. It's obvious I enjoy the driving more than the mechanical side, though I do know I need to cover off the mechanical side as well.

I don't think I've read a bad review of MCA yet, they seem to have pretty good service and product. Also the family history of rally/race setup I'm sure they would know what they're talking about. They just have a different approach on fwd setup it seems. If you read the U.S forums a lot seem to favour higher rear Spring rates in civics and integras so each to there own preferences.

If you want to find out more on suspension theory try reading the optimum G write ups (just google it) they have decent explanations that are easy enough to understand. If that's not really your thing it doesn't matter as much as actually tuning your chassis imo, it just gives you a starting point if you were setting up from scratch and some engineering nerdy terms to compare with others (guilty here).

Your rear arb is about s stiff as you can get I think which will help as well as your alignment. Some people recommend toe out at the rear on fwd for this reason, I personally run toe out at the front and small amount of toe in at the rear for stability.

I've only driven Winton once and there are a few spots where I understeer too, being fwd doesn't help much with that!

Have you taken it to Sandown yet?

[iwearmoccos]

I've been doing a fair bit of reading on wheel setups the past few months, particularly anything wide in a 15inch. The Miata guys in the US run as wide as an 11inch with a 275 Hoosier, which I know I couldn't fit in the Civic without some serious work, but I wanted to know if I could fit at least a 9 inch without too much hassle. There is also a limited number of tyres that fit a 15*10 or 11 rim, so baby steps in the first instance.

Previously I thought a 225 on an 8 inch suitable, but from watching an old spin out video which shows excessive tyre flex with a 225 RS3 on an 8, and also comparing that to my 205 NT01s on an 8 inch rim, I think a 225 on a 9 is more suitable than on an 8. This helps create a more 'square' tyre than a balloon, and also helps to stiffen the sidewall further.
The common Miata theory is 8/205, 9/225, 10/245 and 11/275.

It is obvious my car is not a Spec Miata car, but if you do look at any of the really quick fwd cars, they all seem to run a staggered setup (up to 295 in the front) and if you look at wear on your rear tyres after an event, there is barely any wear compared to the front.
The front of a fwd car needs more tyre than the rear, obvious is obvious right!?

225 NT01 on 9inch 6UL for reference.



Today I had the chance to test fit a 9inch 6UL on the front of my car, which I think could be a future option. There is a requirement for a ~5mm spacer to clear the upright, otherwise it doesn't foul on anything at full lock.
Due to the lack of tyre on the 9inch, I was unable to test guard etc clearance, though that is easily resolved with further guard pulling or spacing.

This exercise was mainly for brainstorming, particularly when buying my next set of tyres and the never ending goal of reducing lap times.
I'd also like to try an A050 or similar 'higher' spec semi, so maybe a 225/205 stagger setup on 9/8 could be an incredibly quick setup.


Little bit of poke that should tuck in under the guard.

This colour is nice.

[Toddxxx]

I really wish 6UL looked good in larger sizes but they just look like poo
One of the best looking smaller size wheels though.

Staggered will be neat. Should fit that 9 easily without having to space out the guard

[DC2-PWR]

Have you ever considered 17inch wheel setup?

[iwearmoccos]

I really wish 6UL looked good in larger sizes but they just look like poo
One of the best looking smaller size wheels though.

Staggered will be neat. Should fit that 9 easily without having to space out the guard

They've definitely grown on me since buying my 15*8 set a few months back.
They've got a low key look that suits sneaking through town without standing out!

Have you ever considered 17inch wheel setup?

I don't really need a wheel setup that big unless I was going to a 245+ tyre, which I think the little b16 would struggle turning.
And unless I'm going full WTAC spec like Dan's EK4, I think a wheel of that size looks way too big on an EK.

[iwearmoccos]

Since installing my Mishimoto radiator, I was never really happy with how close the stock airbox, overflow bottle and radiator was so I devised a plan to resolve this.
I ordered a slimline Mishimoto fan and bought a K&N Apollo filter from a friend and rigged up the coolest p plater intake you could think of. The results are as below, and to resolve the coolant bottle away from the radiator, I removed the mount and cut a piece out of it so I could fold it over on itself. Seems to work and stay in it's place. The slimline fan probably wasn't really needed after this, but it sounds like a jet when running, so it's totally worth it
I need to make a more secure mount for the filter, I'll bend up something at my parents in a few weeks.


This past weekend was EXE double day at Winton, which is always a highlight of the calendar!

Friday afternoon heading up after work was ridiculous, so much rain and traffic, I was glad to get into Benalla and enjoy some Chinese food at the local restaurant.
It didn't rain much/at all over night and we woke to some sun on Saturday morning.

The plan for the weekend was to gain a second on my 1:42.4 done with RS3s and new gearbox at H Nats.
I figured it would dry, so put my NT01s on before the first session and then went out with a passenger.
Only changes to the car since H Nats was the rear toe at 0, NT01s instead of RS3s and my sick pod on a stick.

All lap times for the day, as per below.
1:53.4490 1:44.2080 1:44.9180 1:45.6830 1:44.0760 1:44.8530
1:55.6440 1:43.3040 1:41.7610 1:43.1540 1:42.7330
1:59.8330 1:42.0920 1:56.1520 1:41.8820
1:53.9840 1:41.9190 1:41.4880 1:45.6240

As you can see, I was able to gain the second (or almost) pretty regularly in all sessions though I still felt the car was pushing through corners a bit, there was some improvement compared to H Nats. A combination of better tyres and alignment also I assume was the contributors to that.
Particularly the tyres. You always forget how much better a 'semi' is until you go back to street tyres.

For the last session, I set my rear coilovers to hard and inflated my rear tyres to 34psi, up from 31psi hot I was running previous, to hopefully increase the rotation of the car. It did improve things, and on the out laps, doing tank slappers down the straight I could definitely feel the rear being more active.

Earlier in the day I had also passengered in a friends B18 EG with 225 NT01s on the front, while I'm just running 205. He complained about it, but the turn in on his car was amazing. I could see it being quite unstable when pushing it really hard, but on 80percent passenger laps, it was just turn in and the tyres grip, while the rear comes around so easily. He is also running -4 camber in the front each side, while I'm just at -2.5 each side, which I could see the benefits of when looking at the outer edge wears on my tyres as per below.
His suspension setup is slightly different to mine, running springs from and rear in the mid 20kg region and no swaybars.

These are photos of the edges of my front tyres.
Right

Left


I would assume some more camber would help use more of the tyre in the corners instead of the outside edge. I may request that at my next alignment.

Either way, I had another day on the Sunday and no chance for an alignment, so had to make use with what I had and try to cut even more time off, since I had achieved my original goal!

From the track day and events from Saturday, I was exhausted on Saturday night. The excessive pizza didn't help either!
Sunday was more nice weather, with the sun out and the track already having rubber on it from the day previous.

Photo in the pits in the first session, that is my passenger"s head.


Lap times for Sunday
2:03.2520 1:45.0150 1:44.9670 1:43.6990 1:55.5190 1:44.6560
1:56.8450 1:41.2170 1:40.7640
1:52.3130 1:47.2200 1:40.1530 1:41.0700
1:53.3470 1:40.2640 1:41.1550 1:53.8110 1:40.7530
1:53.9450 1:40.1030 1:42.3140 1:40.6170 1:54.8340 1:40.7900
1:53.3960 1:40.0640 1:40.5760
1:50.7980 1:44.8640 1:40.7080 1:55.2880 1:41.1290

One thing I've found with all my PBs in the past, I've always been able to match it once I've done that one quick lap. It's as if the body and mind remembers how to do it and I can just get out and do it again.
That's what I found on Sunday. TEN 1:40.XX laps!!!
I worked hard for all those 1:40 laps, but to get that consistent lap is great.
As you can see in the video below of my 1:40.0640, my notoriously inaccurate Racechrono decided to drop a .6 right before the start/finish to trick me into thinking that maybe I did a 1:39. I had questions in my mind and kinda knew it wasn't going to be that lap, or not as low as it was into the 1:39s.

One massive improvement I was making on Sunday compared to Saturday is i was using more of the track. Out to the ripples, running wide after the dog leg and even going flat through the esses to then head out towards the outer ripple strip. I felt really comfortable with what are notoriously large ripple strips.

Here is my quickest lap from the day, 1:40.0640.

After all that, I made it home and unpacked all the gear that I ended up carrying back. 8 wheels and all the tools from a weekend. Not a problem!


The only casualties from the weekend are my idle hunting more than usual and what sounds like some valve noise from the engine. I first thought the worst and pictured some terrible 'knock knock' jokes, but from listening to others and people I've sent sound clips to, it should be valves. I will investigate later this week when I get a chance.
I have paid for a hill climb on the 25th, so would like to run that if possible. Will assess.
EDIT: It could also just be a simple exhaust leak, let's not jump the gun!

A few photos from the weekend thanks to Brett Swain.



I also found out about this setting, so my footage won't be blown out like above!

[ChargeR]

Well done bloke, and also looking forward to further videos following your discovery of the spot meter function.

[iwearmoccos]

Well done bloke, and also looking forward to further videos following your discovery of the spot meter function.

Thanks Tom, I look forward to providing your eyes with much less over exposure.


For a comparison, this is my quickest lap on the Saturday. A 1:41.4880, compared to a 1:40.06 on Sunday

If I can work it out, I'll put them both in a video next to each other for a direct comparison.

[Toddxxx]

Good work man!
1:39 next time!

Also glad you found spot metering :P
Only bummer is it make the interior quite dark. You probably won't have this issue due to big open windows but the s2k interior being quite enclosed comes up really dark
Windscreen/outside is perfect though

[eskimo_firefighter]

Great driving Rhys! Shame about ratdog Racechrono. Next time 39's!

[iwearmoccos]

Good work man!
1:39 next time!

Also glad you found spot metering :P
Only bummer is it make the interior quite dark. You probably won't have this issue due to big open windows but the s2k interior being quite enclosed comes up really dark
Windscreen/outside is perfect though

Great driving Rhys! Shame about ratdog Racechrono. Next time 39's!

Thanks gents, I see some solid 1:39s in the future. It really doesn't seem so out of reach anymore.

And to think when I bought this car I was going to be happy running 1:45s all day!!