The Harness Thread

[sangers]

There was some interesting discussion in the last thread. There was alot of disrespect too and a bit of wanking. But I thought we should continue the good stuff cause I was certainly learning.

I found this as another option to Takata, Willians, anything local:

http://www.do-luck-usa.com/teamtech.html

huge range of colours, for those who care.

[Ljubo (LJ)]

I heard Harness are dangerous if car doesn't have rollcage??? also don't know if they are legal for street, would love to have them in my car but there is lots of unclear stuff so I'm still not getting them

[tinkerbell]

i wear a 3 pt sabelt harness at the track with a sparco sprint seat. both are removed for the drive there and the drive home.

it cost me $99 from revolution race gear.

mine is red with yellow badges

[chee]

You can have a harness in car if you dont use it on the street. so you have to retain the use of your standard seat belt.

Harness doesnt have to be necessarily connected to a roll cage, a harness bar will be fine.

Only thing dangerous about using a harness, is when you use then without the proper headgear. As it can cause neck damage.

But yeah just leave your harnesses there and sit on them when they arnt in use.

[Page]

To have harnesses in a street car it has too be a 2 seater correct?

[chee]

you cannot use a harness on the street. but you can have it there hooked up. use your normal seatbelt for the street.

[e240]

[QUOTE=chee;19278]
Only thing dangerous about using a harness, is when you use then without the proper headgear. As it can cause neck damage.
[QUOTE]

How will it cause neck damage if you don't wear proper headgear? even with a helmet, the neck is still unsupported (Unless you want a hans device?)

The reason why harness's are not recommended for street use is that it reduces the movement of the driver. the driver will find it difficult to check blind spots etc etc etc...

[matt]

Only thing dangerous about using a harness, is when you use then without the proper headgear. As it can cause neck damage.

also if the angles in the harness are not correct they car do more damage than good, which is what a correctly positioned harness bar/roll cage does

as e240 says how can it cause neck damage without proper head gear, a helmet doen't really stop you from snapping your neck afterall.
lol @ hans device, oh please let me see some tool driving around the street with a hans device

[GoldCoastDC5R]

To have harnesses in a street car it has too be a 2 seater correct?

Correct because you cant use the back seats with a harness in, usually you would have the rear seats out if you have a harness in anyways, in which case you legally need a mod plate for modified seating capacity.

[RDC-2™]

also if the angles in the harness are not correct they car do more damage than good, which is what a correctly positioned harness bar/roll cage does

as e240 says how can it cause neck damage without proper head gear, a helmet doen't really stop you from snapping your neck afterall.
lol @ hans device, oh please let me see some tool driving around the street with a hans device

coz if u don't have a rollcage to secure ur harness on..that means..(like im and most ppl are doing) are securing it into the 'use to be seat belt buckle at the back seat. if the angle of the harness is more than 45degree...can't remember if its calculated from horizontal or vertical position....then when there is a crash..while ur body is moving forward..the harness will basically squash ur should down...which could break ur spine if ur shoulders don't break first...

the harness is still attached on mine...but i just leave i there...never use it..got pulled over a few times....cops were cool about it as long as i don't use it on road or no one is sitting at the back...but yeah..i'd like to see some fool driving around with the harness on..hahaha...u 'll have twice or more the amount of blind spot....and my friend for fun..tried to do a reverse parking with it on hahahaha...

[Noel]

I'm no further contributing on this subject unless otherwise necessary. In the meantime, please re-read what I've posted, it covers all aspects of harness use, mounting and most importantly safety. There is too much BS and wrong information in here.

The understanding of why is the purpose and use of a race harness is perhaps the most important safety aspect one must consider. Here are some simple questions to begin with?

- Why do you want a harness? | If you're answering this simply because of bling or simply want to make use of the holes in your factory Recaros, this is an important read for you. Porsche GT spec cars may have them from factory by why do they still spot a factory click seatbelt? It's because the harness is specifically used only on competition. Not your street driven redlight GPs. If you aren't a committed track enthusiasts who at least sees one trackday once every 6 months, save the money and buy something else.

- How am I going to mount the harness? / What else do I need? | Apart from mounting anchors. The height/distance and projected setup method needs to be considered. Every car is different along with "standard/acceptable" mounting points. The easiest is mimic a race car that already has one setup. Chances are, that's the best way it should be done. Mount it wrongly - Including angles, length/distance/method. The harness will become useless and effectively a deathtrap when the unthinkable happens.

One good example I've seen is factory cars especially DC2Rs in recent times with no rollcages/bars mounting harness using rear factory strut braces/points as the "support/structure" point. Routing it almost from the front to the end of the car. That's about the worse mounting style and method considering there is no "exit point" should something really happen. You've just webbed yourself in like a spider with a prey.

- Selecting a harness? | Which one should I get and why? Consider the following apart from JDM bling factor. Harness points - 4/5/6 (This isn't the case of the more the better but what suits and holds you in place should an emergency happen), Harness adjustment method - Inside/outside/under/top (The Takata adjustment is a severe PITA and track enthusiasts worlwide agree so, some are more user friendly allowing you to adjust on the fly - Willians is a better option overall), Harness release point - seatbelt click type/aircraft turn-twist type (One is simple while the other is more secure, once again application and usage is important). Harness length (Over routing/under routing means it's not offering the proper grip strength - This needs to be selected based on where it will be mounted for best application purpose), Harness construction/material (Fireproof, whiplash prevention etc, the more features you want, the more it'd cost).

The correct installation of an aftermarket harness system requires sufficient rollover protection. Since the 3 point factory seatbelts allow the occupant to move to the side in the event of a rollover it is possible for an occupant to avoid head injury with relatively little clearance. However, when a 4, 5 or 6 point aftermarket system is installed properly, this is no longer possible and thus requires a roll structure high enough to allow clearance above your head (or helmet) while sitting upright. Generally, the rule of the thumb is 2 inchs of space between your head and/w helmet. The imaginary line drawn from the top of the windshield header and the top of the roll structure. Some people with short torsos may be able to fit these guidelines with stock roll hoops, but for most of us the only way to achieve this is by adding a higher aftermarket rollbar and/or lowering the seat (Hence why you see lower seat rails being offered by JDM tuners - Not because of lowrider looks but for safety purposes).

Another important consideration is the secure mounting of the harness. The mounting points are subjected to extreme loads during an accident and must not fail. It is important for the shoulder straps to extend rearward at no more than a 15 degree downward angle from the horizontal. If the shoulder straps are mounted improperly (IE - Looping the strap over the shoulder and down to a floor mount) you greatly increase the risk of severe injury from spinal compression. "Submarining" is also a concern with a 4-point harness system for 2 reasons. A - Since the shoulder straps pull up on the lapbelt, it is possible to raise the lap belt above the pelvic crest bones and onto the abdomen. If the lap belt is too high, serious injury can occur to internal organs. That's why 5 and 6 point systems are used in racecar restraint systems. However, it is not possible to use these anti-submarine straps without the installation of an aftermarket seat that allows the straps to pass directly down to the floor. It is not safe to loop the anti-submarine belt over the front of the seatbecause it does not provide the correct downward force and still allows submarining. B - A 3 point system allows some chest rotation. The right side of the chest moves forward in an accident, decreasing the tendency to slide under the lapbelt. In all but one 4point systems, this rotation in prevented increasing submarining risk. Schroth makes a 4-point harness with an anti-submarine feature that does allow some chest rotation and decreases submarine risk.

Here are 2 scenarios to consider before slapping on those cool 4 point belts

Rollover - In a rollover, the A pillar, B/C pillars in a coupe are designed to leave some room between the passenger compartment and the ground. The stock 3 point system allows lateral movement that has been reported to prevent head injury in these types of accidents. If you were wearing a 4 point harness, lateral movement would be limited, increasing risk of severe injury to the head and neck in a rollover accident. That is why 4/5 and 6 point harnesses should only be mounted in cars that have a roll structure that extends above the head (or helmet). I've covered this over and over again because without the necessary accompaning hardware, you do nothing but risk death or severe injury for the bling factor.

Front Impact Accident - The primary OEM restraint is the 3 point seatbelt. It, combined with the airbag is designed to distribute the energy of the impact to the strongest parts of your body and over a wide area. Our 3point belt also has belt pre-tensioners that reduce forward movement. A properly installed 4 point harness will distribute crash forces over a larger surface area of the body, but you lose the pre-tensioning benefit. There is also the increased risk of submarining as compared to the stock seatbelt system. Using a 5 or 6 point harness that has the anti-submarine straps routed downward through the seat to secure mounting points on the floor can greatly reduce "submarine" risk.

[matt]

coz if u don't have a rollcage to secure ur harness on..that means..(like im and most ppl are doing) are securing it into the 'use to be seat belt buckle at the back seat. if the angle of the harness is more than 45degree...can't remember if its calculated from horizontal or vertical position....then when there is a crash..while ur body is moving forward..the harness will basically squash ur should down...which could break ur spine if ur shoulders don't break first...

the harness is still attached on mine...but i just leave i there...never use it..got pulled over a few times....cops were cool about it as long as i don't use it on road or no one is sitting at the back...but yeah..i'd like to see some fool driving around with the harness on..hahaha...u 'll have twice or more the amount of blind spot....and my friend for fun..tried to do a reverse parking with it on hahahaha...

thats what i was saying, i was questioning how proper headgear will prevent neck damage

[RDC-2™]

i don't know either...maybe with a helmet it makes ur head bigger...so...i really don't know...hahaha...been sitting here for 5 mins..can't think of reason...

o...maybe he meant the neck restraint that goes with the helmet?!?!?

nice post noel..almost same as the paperwork that came with the harness when i bought it...nice nice