Wheel Alignment spec - EP3

[Perry]

Hi everyone,

Need help in getting wheel alignment setting for my ep3. Due to most alignment places in Sydney wont have ep3's on their system are dc5r similar?. Anyone have any idea?my ep3 is only sittting on coilovers and lowered a bit.

Thanks
Perry

[m0nty]

You got camber bolts or rear camber arms Pez?

[Philip Lee]

this is also a question i want to know.

i have fitted Tein SS with front pillow mount and rear upper arm for camber.

what is a good alignment setting for a slight drop of about 15 - 20mm.

thanks in advance.

[ChargeR]

As m0nty says, how much adjustment do you have?

Similar settings as for a DC5 will work. For the track a good place to start is to max the front camber then run about half as much at the rear. Zero toe front and rear or a little toe out at the rear has worked well for me. Only testing will tell you the settings most suited to you.

For a nice street alignment I would recommend -1.5 camber front, -0.75 rear, zero toe or perhaps 2mm toe in at the rear for stability. You can go as high as -3 camber with absolutely minimal effects on tyre wear.

[Perry]

You got camber bolts or rear camber arms Pez?

Nah got no camber bolts and arms.

[Philip Lee]

For a nice street alignment I would recommend -1.5 camber front, -0.75 rear, zero toe or perhaps 2mm toe in at the rear for stability. You can go as high as -3 camber with absolutely minimal effects on tyre wear.

i dun really track my car so a nice street set up would be good. thanks for your comment.

at the moment my front camber is -1 toe is +0.5 both side while rear camber is -2 and i think zero toe.

the car doesn't seem too stable on slightly bumpy road.

anyway will try your toe set up rear camber.

cheers

[VTECMACHINE]

2mm toe out front, slight toe out at rear. It's fun going straight.

[PENUT]

Gonna revive this thread, suspension gurus chime in pls!

The UK guys on type-r-owners.co.uk forum all swear by this 'FRSU - fast road set up', where they run ABP/eibach 30mm springs, front camber bolts, rear camber kit, and some use a JDM EP3 rear sway. The settings are something along the lines of -1 camber all round, +1 or +2 toe in rear, -1 toe out front.

I'm thinking of giving something similar a try. I'm going to be putting on ABP/eibach 30mm springs, front camber bolts, rear kit, whiteline 24mm solid rear sway (would it be similar to how they run UK front/JDM rear to minimise understeer?) and go for an alignment. What are your opinions on the -1 camber, -1F/+2R toe setup? Or would the handling gains be minimal and chewing my rubber up vs. 0 toe all round

The reasoning I assume is that toe in at the rear is for stability and toe out at the front is for better turn in.

[dnapol]

I run -3.5 front and -2.8 rear camber.
Rear toe +1
Camber bolts/ camber tops with todds tie rods and rear camber kit. Found this has been the best / fastest setup I've had or driven

[ChargeR]

Gonna revive this thread, suspension gurus chime in pls!

You haven't told us what you want to use the car for?

[dnapol]

Tom can you enlighten on castor ideas?

[PENUT]

You haven't told us what you want to use the car for?

I mentioned 'fast road set up'. So i guess in Australia it would be called a comfy street set up? the reason for springs over coilovers

[ChargeR]

I mentioned 'fast road set up'. So i guess in Australia it would be called a comfy street set up? the reason for springs over coilovers

Ah okay. In that case their recommended alignment numbers sound okay (assuming the toe numbers are mm per side). One change you could make is to use zero toe at the front to potentially reduce tyre wear (though zero toe doesn't guarantee less tyre wear, it's possible that slight static toe out at the front might give better tyre wear, I've never tried it).

One thing that I think should be remembered is that toe numbers will have more effect on the steering feel and turn in response on the road, which is what is most important rather than ultimate cornering balance for street use. Hopefully you're not intentionally using 100% of you and your cars ability on the street!

Can't comment on whether the springs will fit the bill of being a comfy street setup though. I found my stock DC5R would be all over the bump stops at the front during spirited driving on somewhat bumpy roads so I'd expect it would only get worse with aftermarket springs which tend to be pretty soft.

[PENUT]

Thanks for the reply.

The toe numbers is total. I would think 4mm toe in R/2mm toe out F seems a bit excessive?
Another concern is that toe out on the front might dull the steering feel

[ChargeR]

Tom can you enlighten on castor ideas?

I don't think I'm qualified enough to be shooting my mouth off about suspension but I'll give it a go. Here's an old post of mine, from when I still had my DC5R, on the topic: LINKY

A couple of extra thoughts I have on the matter in no particular order (applicable to track use only):

- Caster, like any alignment setting will be a compromise based on driver preference, tyres, intended use, suspension architecture, spring rates, the time of day, the colour of the car, the cycle of the moon....etc. There's never going to be a hard rule that can be applied a even small and specific subsection of cars (ie. FWD Hondas for circuit use)

Since I wrote that last post I've read a few interesting threads on Honda-Tech like this excellent post from RR98ITR (Who I think is the best poster on Honda-tech, if you've got time to kill search for his started threads. Honourable mention to "beanbag"): LINK Based on this I've come to a few conclusions:

- Firstly there's such a thing as too much caster, as too much increases the understeering moment as mentioned by the illustrious RR98ITR and has the geometric jacking (outside tyre lifts the car up, inside tyre lowers the car down effectively rolling the car into the corner) effect that I mention in my post linked above which won't make your front tyres happy amongst other things. The happy number for caster is probably between 0 and 10° .

-Secondly I'd re-iterate that the "dynamic camber when the wheels are steered because you have a lot of caster" is crap and won't have a substantial effect for circuit use. Might be more noticeable on a McStrut but no-one uses that suspension layout anymore.

- Lastly it's possible that too much caster will make the "increasing steering effort with increasing cornering force" effect, which should in theory make it easier to feel the grip limit of the tyre, excessive for some drivers and actually make the grip limit less perceptible.

- So with the above in mind the best thing to do is probably test. Then test again. Then test a little more. Unfortunately though caster isn't that easy to change on the FWD Hondas so probably best to just leave it alone.