Opinions - DC2R Power Upgrade

[ewendc2r]

Hey..

So at the moment I'm looking at a couple of good deals for reasonable power gains and am a little torn as to which way to go at this stage .. Thought I might find out from some of the people out there who have already upgraded valvetrain / cams etc built motors.

For around the same money I can go to a supercharged option resulting in around 250whp and torque everywhere or I can buy a head package good for around 210whp ..

Downsides to the charger is belt breaks often (like once every 2 - 3 weeks in some cases with hi boost) and retains stock engine internals ..

For the people out there with 130-150kw in DC2R -- is it seriously noticeable over 110kw or do you still need more? the Supercharger will deliver around 170kw but with a very flat torque curve.. overkill??

thanks..

[ChargeR]

Leave it alone. Track it until it breaks, then fix it . Unless you think the enjoyment you will get from the significant power increase will outweigh the downtime and reduced reliability.

Stay NA in my opinion, a simpler solution is generally more reliable. The 250whp possible with the supercharger you mention is probably reaching the point where increasing power in FWD yields diminishing returns where you simply cannot get the power to the ground.

[tinkerbell]

built B20VTEC.

130-150kW depending on $$$

it shows art the track...

tell us your budget - we'll help you spend it!

[DC2RKID]

motor wont last long with a charger...comp is high as it is

[ewendc2r]

Ok -- 250whp should be fine on the track at speeds from 100kph+ I don't imagine massive tractions issues although I might be mistaken. I wouldn't want to go more than this (which is also one of the reasons I don't want to turbo other than totally changing the characteristic of the car).

Going NA will get expensive -- I'd rather keep stock bottom end for time being and play with the head. For around us$1500 I can get an Alaniz Streeport head with Toda running gear and Jun3 cams proven to put down around 250whp on a fully built setup so assuming with less compression I'm looking at around the 200whp mark.
For a further us$700 I can get some ITB's which would make for a fairly serious package.

For around us$3000 I can get a supercharger kit (Roots style) running around 12psi and about 250whp but with a beautiful torque curve (I've read reports of 350nm of torque!)

I've done some research and the shipping for the supercharger kit is excessive -- around $700. The head is much less, around $230.

I really don't want to open the bottom end at this stage -- waiting until the engine starts to die, guessing I've got around 30-40,000 kms at least. Which is why I'm wondering if I am better of simply getting a supercharger which mimics the NA characteristics and supplies a high, reliable power output (other than belt breakage). At the end of the day if 12psi is too much I can downgrade to 9 then to 7 psi with pulley changes. But at 7psi its hardly worth the expense!

If I buy the head I can change it over myself without too many dramas and can probably sell my stock manifold, j's intake & complete head for similar price to what I would be buying to alaniz head for so ... decision decisions. Since I want to keep the rev limit close to stock (reliability / life) at around 9100rpm I just don't know if the power I get from the head upgrade is going to be worthwhile without tearing down the short block.

MAYBE ChargeR is on the right path -- Just focus on the handling of the car until the engine goes pop then do a full rebuild.. arrggh... its so hard.

Car is getting tuned tomorrow -- just stock i/h/e but its been running like shit for a little while now with hesitation part-throttle low rpm and rich as shit.

[ewendc2r]

motor wont last long with a charger...comp is high as it is

Its not about the compression its about the tuning -- There are plenty of stock bottom end with 11:1 compression running more than 10psi with reliability. Something to do with Static Compression vs Dynamic Compression (or something, I read an article on it once) and high volumetric efficiency.

Having said that yeah you are right -- You wouldn't want to run much more than 12psi on 11:1 as timing would need to be retarded that much .. More than 12psi and you are asking for trouble.

[tinkerbell]

For a further us$700 I can get some ITB's

link pls!

man, your shipping prices are reallly bad - i brought in 25 litres of oil for just over $110au via fedex!

if you tell me the part number of the SC kit i can get a quote from my wholesaler in Florida?

i can also get any parts you are interested in

[tinkerbell]

BTW - have you driven a SC car?

i think there was a QLD DC5 one?

[DC2RKID]

from my opinion a quik NA car is more impresive then a forced one

[k20eg]

i love the sound of a sc!!

you should get the sc...........because it sounds sick!

plus you get more hp and nm too i guess....

[ewendc2r]

BTW - have you driven a SC car?

i think there was a QLD DC5 one?

Yeah David had a Jackson Racing kit -- Was ok but I don't really like DC5 handling characteristics so that weighed into it.. Very strong 2nd and 3rd gear and he was only running around 9psi from memory. He was on redlineau.com for a long time.. Met him on a cruise ageeess ago. I'm looking at something similar to a Jackson Racing system, but looking to use a different charger -- something like a whipple which is similar to a TVS system by Eaton except more efficient all across the band.. But starting with a Jackson Racing M62 will suffice

I realise that all motor is more impressive -- obviously. That isn't my point. I am looking for best performance, read: time attack. It seems that a well setup SC would be unbelievably fast and predictable (linear power delivery), with power always when you need it.

I am leaning back towards NA again simply due to changeover cost at this stage..

ITBS -- Couple of choices:

1) Brand New - OBX ITB (Same essential design as Toda using 4AGE throttle bodies) just rougher so need to spend some attention on it before installing.
2) Custom Made - Using the 4AGE throttle bodies and a intake flange.
3) Jenvey & TWM -- Both of these options are around the US$1700 second hand and look pretty trick.. good reports on them!

Following my motto of doing it once, properly, I should really just go and get the ITB's at this stage (Jenvey's or TWM) and upgrade the head at a later date.. I'll still pick up some midrange and not like they really 'wear out'.

again .. argh.

Tinkerbell -- I'll send you a pm..

[ewendc2r]

i love the sound of a sc!!

you should get the sc...........because it sounds sick!

plus you get more hp and nm too i guess....

There is a crazy M90 kit available (no p/s or a/c) thats capable of big boost and around 450whp -- crazy. The noise from that thing is incredible. Unfortunately the 'good' chargers (i.e. next evolution from roots, the screw type) don't make much noise anymore.. But yeah, the whine is great!

[benson]

B20vtec gets my vote

[ewendc2r]

Benson -- Can I ask why? I am trying to make an informed decision here. What are the advantages as far as you're concerned?

I mean, my heart agrees with you but my head doesn't... The SC option if well sorted seems like a perfect solution. Other than it would force my car into Road6 category lol where you have a chance compared with Road4 I guess - Rob Nguyen and his CRX are quiiicckk..

[tinkerbell]

B20VTEC = cheap, reliable and powerful

and will keep you in a lower class compared to F/I...