PWR Radiators - Possible Group Buy

[sangers]

im not going to debate business here but in my mind, they should be able to give u a price against x amount of business on a sliding scale. when they say, we can't tell u how much we;re gonna charge you until u say how many you want, well we can't say how many we want unless we know how much they are. what comes first, chicken or the egg.

granted i dont expect a linear graph of price against every value of x but usually people say...

if you buy 5 you can have them for this much
if you buy 10 you can have them for this much

its hard for people to commit to buyng something when no price is given.

regardless the situation i have described above is not the exact situation here as tony has already given us a rough estimate of the price and saving. so im happy with that. but maybe if a fixed price for meeting a number of sales as given, we might be able to boost our numbers, possibly with people sitting on the fence.

[Noel]

I really don't understand what line you're trying to draw in the sand. In simple Indian - You either pay a discount price if you meet the GB requirements or worse comes to worse, you pay full retail.

Okay Sang, I guess I'm just not intelligent enough to see through the frustrations of fighting over a few benjamins.

[cldc2]

I really don't understand what line you're trying to draw in the sand. In simple Indian - You either pay a discount price if you meet the GB requirements or worse comes to worse, you pay full retail.

Okay Sang, I guess I'm just not intelligent enough to see through the frustrations of fighting over a few benjamins.

I'd fight over a few benjamins...

Tony, thanks heaps for the write up... sadly, I'll be giving this GB a miss.

[sangers]

I really don't understand what line you're trying to draw in the sand. In simple Indian - You either pay a discount price if you meet the GB requirements or worse comes to worse, you pay full retail.

Okay Sang, I guess I'm just not intelligent enough to see through the frustrations of fighting over a few benjamins.

yeh, listen i dont really care, as i've stated. i'm in for the group buy no matter what the price as long as its less than $735 (rrp) but if u read the replies there are some that say "interested depending on price". so what im suggesting is that those people are probably only going to show committment if they know how much it could possibly be. im just suggesting an alternate way to raise the numbers here that is the norm usually with group buys, no need to hang me

[hebe]

Guys, keep it on topic regarding the group buy and not business ethics.

[nzitr]

I think the product seems fine and the price is okay even at retail so I'd like to explore the benefits of the radiator a little more. Does any one have any water and oil temp data going from stock to aftermarket?

[tofu]

you see, on the flip side, even if you get the numbers and went to the company with these X interested buyers, they give us a price, and it's not much of a discount, some of those who were interested in the first place might not be interested at all...

and for those that were genuinely interested will get shafted, cuz they will have to have waited for all this GB business to finish and eventually find out they are still going to pay RRP, which they would have happily done X months ago and not worry about this GB.

[tinkerbell]

At the pressed-on seam is usually where these OEM radiators fail and leak when they get old or subjected to very high pressures and temperatures.

lol, um yes, as tinkerbell proved at wakefield yesterday...

but that was after running a stock VTiR radiator for three sessions in 1 hour on a warm day...

i still think that $700+ is too high for my sorry DIY ass to pay...


PS - Tony - can you please explain your references to oil temp in the initial post?

[GoldCoastDC5R]

lol, um yes, as tinkerbell proved at wakefield yesterday...

but that was after running a stock VTiR radiator for three sessions in 1 hour on a warm day...

i still think that $700+ is too high for my sorry DIY ass to pay...


PS - Tony - can you please explain your references to oil temp in the initial post?

Please read the below post from evan in the oil cooler thread:

A few years ago, I was watching video footage of ITRs production endurance racing in Japan. A large oil temperature gauge sat squarely on the middle of the dash. When the temperature hit 130 degrees celcius, the driver would turn on the interior car heaters. Used to do the trick and stop the oil temperature rising. If the temperature hit 140 degrees, drivers were backing off until temperature came down.

On Type R Hondas, there is a oil to water intercooler that sits between the oil filter and the block (sandwich type). Normally, the water temperature regulates around 90 degrees. As the oil temperature rises above 90 degrees, heat transfer from the oil to the water occurs and the higher the difference in temperature, the greater the rate of heat transfer. As oil temperature rises to around the 130 degree mark, usually the water temperature is starting to get to a 100+ degrees. The total cooling capacity of the car is starting to be exceeded. Turning on your interior heaters removes heat from the water lowering the temperature of the water which in turn helps reduce the oil temperature.

When I raced my JDM DC2 Spec. 96, I went even further in that I directly coupled the heater hoses from the intercooler to my under the dash radiator used for heating the inside of the car. Sometimes on a real hot day, I would turn on the interior heater fan just to help a little more. Fixed all my oil overheating problems.

Since then, I fitted a larger all aluminium double core radiator and never had heating problems (oil or water) ever again.

What are some of the considerations? 1. A bigger radiator may cost less than a good oil cooler, but does add slightly more weight to the car than an oil cooler. 2. A oil cooler means more piping and plumbing. More things to go wrong. 3. Oil coolers do drop oil pressure. Less oil pressure usually means you are operating your car slightly closer to the limit.

Just on another note replying to another post, I was told by both Mugen and Spoon in Japan to use the newer longer oil filter with the smaller diameter than the older shorter fatter filters. The newer type filter reduces oil pressure fluctuation maintaining a higher more stable reading and yes, the later model filter off a DC5 fits the DC2. There are more simple inexpensive tricks that can be done, but maybe another time.

I also know that the centrax car uses only an after market radiator to keep oil and engine temps under control.

I just don't see the point of spending 600-700$ on a good oil cooler setup alone when if i just get a radiator it will lower water and oil temps due to the oil to water intercooler that our cars use.

[tinkerbell]

thanks for that

IMO the oil-to-coolant heat exchanger should not be seen as a panacea for oil temp issues...

but would be interesting to hear more objective information you might come across/find?

[tinkerbell]

well well well, i just found I can get a PWR one for my car for $590,

anyone want me to get a GB price for 10 radiators?

(rhetorical question! i am just waiting for the email reply!)

[sangers]

well well well, i just found I can get a PWR one for my car for $590,

anyone want me to get a GB price for 10 radiators?

(rhetorical question! i am just waiting for the email reply!)

nice. can u get dc5 ones for that price?

[GoldCoastDC5R]

well well well, i just found I can get a PWR one for my car for $590,

anyone want me to get a GB price for 10 radiators?

(rhetorical question! i am just waiting for the email reply!)

Thats very interesting, considering i am dealing with the distributor / manufacturer, The retail price for the dc2 one is $735.

As sang said what price can you get the Dc5 one for? I am guessing a similar price....

[tinkerbell]

nah, DC5 is about $760AUD at 0.75 ex rate...

but waitign to hear back from trader...

[sangers]

im gonna pull out too. i just found out i can get a spoon dc2 radiator for $720 not including shipping. dc5 radiator is not available yet but it should be close to that price so i'd rather wait.

mugen and arc radiators for dc5 are around 1400 not including shipping