Toe/alignment and suspension help pls!

[bungsai]

Hi guys.

My car is at the shop, hoping to get it this sorted on Monday hence the urgency.

Ok, heres my problem.

Just installed Zeal Function XS into my car.
Just installed the AKOM Racing inverted tie rod ends into my car

Went to get an alignment and they said something about not enough thread left to get the toe to within spec, hence it is sitting at the shop with +30mm and +40mm HUGE toe numbers.

So atm my wheels look like this

Front
\ /

| |
REAR.

Now someone please correct me if i am wrong.

At the moment my TOE adjustability is controlled by the tie rods indicated in RED in the following pictures.





Now, the Zeal function XS suspension have a relatively LOW steering arm on them, so this flattens out the tie rod as per the following picture, correct?

(stock suspension lowered = RED perforated)
(Zeals with low steering arm perch = Orange)



Now, afaik, this is furthered by the use of the inverted tie rods resulting in the following picture (exxagerated)



So my question lies, in order to allow for my TOE to be corrected to i have to LENGTHEN the tie rods or SHORTEN them. According to my logic which is probably flawed, as the arms STRAIGHTEN out, in theory they are lengthened however this may be somewhat negated by the SHORTER tie rod ends.

My question. HOW DO I GET ZERO TOE?

Im thinking that in order to get neutral toe, or toe in i need longer tie rods



The shop where i went to get the alignment said that they were running out of thread. I can only assume this means that when adjust the HEIM? SP? links, they were unscrewing them in order to LENGTHEN the tie rods and were running out of usable thread.

I dont think running -1 camber is going to net me 40mm of toe.

any ideas? Longer tie rods? Go back to oem tie rod ends?

The odd thing is, i had no issues when running stock suspension slammed 2" and stock tie rod ends which theoretically wouldve netted me shorter tie rods....suspension issue? not installed properly?

im confused.:shakehead

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=570531

same thread on Crsx

[ChargeR]

All of your post is correct as far as I can tell and I like your diagrams . Good work for providing a detailed start to a thread. Your diagrams however don't take into account the change in track, or distance between where the tie rods join the steering arms on the struts, when the car is lowered. I believe this is an important factor to take into account when trying to achieve the toe you want with a lowered DC5.

I take it that you are wanting to run close to zero camber? If this is the case I think that perhaps the AKOM ends are not for you, as I assume they are designed to be shorter than the stock ends so that more camber can be set without running out of toe adjustment. As you realise, you need a longer tie rod to achieve zero toe.

I think that using the stock tie rod ends with the AKOM steering bracket may be a good solution for you as this will give you a reasonable steering arm angle whilst giving you longer overall tie rod length, although this is only the case if the AKOM ends are indeed shorter than the stock ends as I imagine them to be.

When the workshop said they were running out of thread they meant that the tie rod ends were in danger of threading completely off the tie rod, correct?

EDIT: The simple answer is to run more camber. I recommend around -4 degrees . Second Edit: I thought it would have been obvious I meant negative camber .

[freakie]

whoa 4 degrees positive? you're a madman!

[fatboyz39]

we had +40mm toe with -3 degree camber....once we set it too -5 degree camber toe was back toe was back to +10mm. Then toe was adjusted accordingly.

[ChargeR]

whoa 4 degrees positive? you're a madman!

Sorry I thought it would have been obvious that I meant negative camber, since adding positive camber will only make bungsai's problem worse and is a foolish thing to do anyways.

[air23box]

time to sell ur tie rods to me bugsai.....lol

[bungsai]

lol i already offered them to EL _DC5, but whoever wants them, i paid $200 for them +$45 for the lockings rings and everything from honda.

$230 posted for the lot.

Going to put the stock tie rod ends on tomorrow and add lots of camber and see how we go.

thanks for the help guys

[air23box]

are they shorter then stock?

[Chi]

You aint gonna get much camber if your car is lowered a fair bit with stock rods.

[bungsai]

Swapped back to stock rod ends today.

Results

Front
Camber : -2
Toe : 0mm

Thanks guys.

[air23box]

DIP in ur tie rods bro...how much pick up

[TeMp]

Interesting. Might start another thread soon and see what results other people have fetched from their inverted tie rods ends and steering brackets. Hoping to install mine soon too.

For those interested I am able to organise more AKOM inverted tie rod ends and steering brackets over. Will probally be now able to get the same price regardless of how many I buy due to last gb.

PM to let me know who is interested.

DIP in ur tie rods bro...how much pick up

Thought you going M&M?

[szymonsta]

Swapped back to stock rod ends today.

Results

Front
Camber : -2
Toe : 0mm

Thanks guys.

interesting u wanted to run 0 toe. its nice to have a bit of toe out at the front to aid in turn-in. did u choose 0 toe becaus ethat was the stock factory setting?

[ChargeR]

Good to see you got it sorted out bungsai . How much more camber could you have got before you ran out of toe adjustment on the tie rods?

[bungsai]

Good to see you got it sorted out bungsai . How much more camber could you have got before you ran out of toe adjustment on the tie rods?

Could probably have squeezed 1.5-1.75 at absolute best maintaining 0 toe.

I chose 0 toe because i do a lot of freeway driving and dont want my tires to die quick.

i only track very occasionally so its not a huge deal.