injen cai vs mugen airbox

[nzitr]

I have both as I picked the Mugen up s/h while my Injen was on order. I ran the Mugen then Injen and then back to the Mugen. The Mugen with a modified grill setup gets my vote for the winter at least. Yes I liked the consistency of the Injen but the general experience left me cold so I put the Mugen back in and worked on improving it. I got the Mugen really cheap and it is nicely made so I'm very happy with it. Would I buy a new one? Nup GruppeM all the way.

[Jingers]

Jing the intake into the Mugen box is probably at most 10cm by 3cm in size that means that no matter how big the box is the amount of air getting into the box is restricted. If you file off all the ribs in the stock air box as well as the divider in the middle of the stock airbox then it would be very similar to mugen. The minimal increase in the volume of air in the box wouldn't result in that much more air being transferred into the Intake manifold. As sang alos mentioned without a aftermarket front bar which offers the scoop for the airbox it is no better than a stock airbox.

With the CAI the pod filter is fed through what forms the brake duct area and is open to the environment meaning that there is a much greater area for which air can access. With all of the lining around the guard in place if forms kind of a big airbox in a sense so to speak, the only restriction to the amount of air getting to the Intake Manifold is the throttle body as it has the smallest diameter opening from the pod filter to the IM.

You talk of decreased torque and responsiveness at low revs but when driving the car hard how ofter do you go below 4000rpm? On the track i never go below 5000rpm so low range torgue and power isn't really an issue. If you going to drive like a nanna and change at 2000rpm then yes it might be a problem. In saying that i have no issues driving around under 3000-3500rpm and i am running Spec C cams....

Yup absolutely hence why i said that differnet tuning styles apply here. responsivness means across the rev range. Ie quicker to rise in rpm all the way to redline.

[supernatural]

btw... u guys are refering to the dc5 yeah?? not dc2??

[z10]

i drive with my filter 3 inch off the tarmac without any protections, no spalsh guard ( with j's racing air duct pointing it directly to the air or WATER)

no problems whatsoever ,as long as i dont drive into a puddle.

[SHOGUNRDC5]

zi do you have a pic...of that set up?

[z10]

zi do you have a pic...of that set up?

yup will post some later on today.

[itr_dc5]

Yup absolutely hence why i said that differnet tuning styles apply here. responsivness means across the rev range. Ie quicker to rise in rpm all the way to redline.

Have to agree with Jing here.

I personally have the Mugen box and I love it, response well even without the bumper and cut out. I guess it really depends what else you have on the car to back it up with.

[GoldCoastDC5R]

Cold Air Intakes:
-
Mugen Airbox
- When used with a OEM bumper and grill, are one of the most restrictive aftermarket intakes available. Toda Racing Australia and Hondatech frown upon this intake greatly.
- When used with an aftermarket bumper and/or grill, with a provision for the intake scoop, yield better gain than an Short Ram Intake but fall short of Cold Air Intakes and the Gruppem intake.

This from someone with a JDM K20A with toda headers, mugen twin loop and hondata making 140kw at the wheels.....

Like i said without the bumber it really doesn't get the ram air effect i if you did a before after dyno i would doubt you will see any significant gains...

In all honesty i can't see how you can justify the extra $600 for a mugen box over a CAI the responsiveness and torque maybe slightly better below 3500rpm but i doubt that justifies the price tag

I guess opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one...

[SHOGUNRDC5]

i think i would be happier with response then high end power...where can i source a gruppe m at a good price...cos at the moment it is really appealing + im going to hong kong does anyone know where i can source one of these up there?

[sangers]

This from someone with a JDM K20A with toda headers, mugen twin loop and hondata making 140kw at the wheels.....

Like i said without the bumber it really doesn't get the ram air effect i if you did a before after dyno i would doubt you will see any significant gains...

In all honesty i can't see how you can justify the extra $600 for a mugen box over a CAI the responsiveness and torque maybe slightly better below 3500rpm but i doubt that justifies the price tag

I guess opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one...

i dont really understand the point that you're trying to make. are you saying that i should be after an intake that yields high end power rather than high response since i have other parts that yield high end power? if so, i would disagree.

the k20a motor provides greater response and greater low to mid range gains than the k20a2, not high end power. as can be seen in comparisons with other audm DC5Rs with my level of mods, high end power figures are fairly similar. it's only when we compare the curve in low to mid that we see the huge difference. i did this at centrax recently. they have copies of dyno graphs from alot of their customers, including many members on this board. anyway that's a bit off topic.

i agree with you, the mugen intake is optimum when paired with an appropriate bumper or grill. you've seen my grill, so you should know what i've done to it.

as for the no gain at all comment - hell no! from first hand experiences since i had a stock DC5R with oem intake, then SRI, then mugen intake, there is a huge gain over the oem intake with the mugen intake. of course this is just the butt dyno but i doubt u could write off the effects of torque to placebo.

you're right, everyone has an opinion. including those who modify their cars to their limit purely for track purposes... there must be a reason why 9 out of 10 DC5R race cars i see pictures of from japan sport the mugen intake over any other.

[GoldCoastDC5R]

My point was that you clearly stated that without the appropriate bumper the mugen airbox was one of the most restrictive intake mods you could do.... That was my point.

I also dont get you point about the amount of air in the box that has been bought up. Thje box is X number of Litres in volume, there will always be that same amount of air in the box or very close to, equilibrium dictates that, air will move from a area of high pressure to low pressure.

My point originally was basically the space for which air to enter the box, and eventually the air filter, is very restrictive, with a CAI you don't have any where near as much restriction for air to get to the filter, air is rammed straight into the filter.

Also with regards to responsiveness, wouldn't it be safe to say that with CAI the only loss would be from completely off throttle to initially putting your foot on the throttle? Once your foot is on the throttle the air is being sucked up the pipe and then it is only the amount of air being sucked up that changes. It is sucking air from a further distance than a mugen box but there will always be air being rammed into the pod when moving, as such wouldn't this maintain a reasonable constant amount of air in the pipe? As you said sang it was like sucking a drink through a long straw, but infact it is nothing like that cause it is only sucking one substance up, which is air. Air will always be present in the piping, not like sucking on a drink where u have to suck the air out first b4 getting the liquid. Suck air through a straw no matter how long the straw is, it is still just as easy to suck, with the negligable effect of friction from the inside of the straw....

I agree that when stopped and then taking off the CAI isn't as responsive because as i mentioned you are going from off throttle to on throttle and it has to do that slight amount of initial extra sucking than at idle.

[sangers]

My point was that you clearly stated that without the appropriate bumper the mugen airbox was one of the most restrictive intake mods you could do.... That was my point.

so what? are we comparing the intake the way its meant to be used or not?

I also dont get you point about the amount of air in the box that has been bought up. Thje box is X number of Litres in volume, there will always be that same amount of air in the box or very close to, equilibrium dictates that, air will move from a area of high pressure to low pressure.

My point originally was basically the space for which air to enter the box, and eventually the air filter, is very restrictive, with a CAI you don't have any where near as much restriction for air to get to the filter, air is rammed straight into the filter.

i doubt very much that your intake needs to draw in the full volume of air that is contained within the airbox at any point in time when your throttle is wide open for an uninterrupted period of time. once you release your throttle to change to the next gear, the airbox has an opportunity to again fill up with air.

it doesn't matter if the space for which the air to enter the box is restrictive or not if there is already enough air in the box for it to breathe in and enough that it needs, its not like its going to be sucking air in through the opening to the box.

Also with regards to responsiveness, wouldn't it be safe to say that with CAI the only loss would be from completely off throttle to initially putting your foot on the throttle? Once your foot is on the throttle the air is being sucked up the pipe and then it is only the amount of air being sucked up that changes. It is sucking air from a further distance than a mugen box but there will always be air being rammed into the pod when moving, as such wouldn't this maintain a reasonable constant amount of air in the pipe? As you said sang it was like sucking a drink through a long straw, but infact it is nothing like that cause it is only sucking one substance up, which is air. Air will always be present in the piping, not like sucking on a drink where u have to suck the air out first b4 getting the liquid. Suck air through a straw no matter how long the straw is, it is still just as easy to suck, with the negligable effect of friction from the inside of the straw....

I agree that when stopped and then taking off the CAI isn't as responsive because as i mentioned you are going from off throttle to on throttle and it has to do that slight amount of initial extra sucking than at idle.

the key point of discussion is the long pipe that a CAI's filter sits on. the filter of a mugen airbox is a third of that distance from the intake manifold. its the long straw effect. connect three straws together in a chain and try sipping a drink through them and see how much longer it takes to get water to your mouth with the same amount of breathe extended on one straw.

the argument that if air (in this anology, fluid) is already flowing through the straw is incorrect also. do the same experiment i just described with a little bit of fluid already in the long straw, then try to increase the amount drawn into it. it will be much easier to finish off a drink with a short straw than a long straw even if you're in the process of drinking it.

[sangers]

i think i would be happier with response then high end power...where can i source a gruppe m at a good price...cos at the moment it is really appealing + im going to hong kong does anyone know where i can source one of these up there?

try man auto parts.

[SHOGUNRDC5]

try man auto parts.

thanks

[tofu]

logic tells me that the reason for a "box" is because when you step on the gas, there is air available right then and there.

with the injen cai setup, there isn't a "pocket" of air ready for use...
but it still sucks air in but it takes longer because it has to travel up the long tube.

i think bottom line between the injen cai and mugen cai is that they both provide different results, and the ultimate power gain from just these two parts alone won't really make much difference between the two cars with them. (considering everything else was stock)