Oil Catch Can

[Apu]

This discussion started in Plaything's build thread so rather than hijack it further, I thought it useful to continue it here.

My view is that a catch can is a "nice to have". You really don't get any performance gain from it if your engine is healthy. What it does is it provides you with the opportunity to keep check and alert you to any issues if you find there is an unusual amount of oil collected.

Here's why I have one fitted to my MX5, but not the Integra at that point in time:

MX5 - about 11 years old with ~125,000kms. N/A at the time and was about to fit a turbo. A peek into the throttle body and intake manifold revealed an oily film...which really, isn't that big a deal in a car of this age.

DC2R - about 13 years old with ~175,000kms. Relatively clean TB and intake manifold...not oily relative to the MX5. I know this engine is in good health anyway and doesn't even blow smoke on the dyno.

The catch can I fitted to the MX5 is a hollow container with no baffles. I just chucked a stainless Scotch Brite pad in there.

Logic - you'd be hard pressed to find any performance gains from using a catch can...if you do, then you've got bigger issues and a catch can is not the solution.

Anyway, if you want a "proper" catch can, get one where the chambers are separated and has baffles. See pic below...which also has stainless scouring wool because really...that is the best trapping medium.

147916d1383100571-anyone-running-upr-oil-separator-catch-can-p5190072.jpg

There are some beautiful units out there that could be on display in a Museum of Modern Art, and others that are just ridiculously over-featured just to justify a cost...I've seen a couple with magnets to trap metallic material. Again...if metal makes it into your catch can...

If you don't want to spend too much, then go the route I did. It's simple, practical and works as a means to monitor your engine. As much as manufacturers like to tell you how oil vapour can affect performance...a Band-Aid is not going to stop profuse bleeding.

[sikboy]

Awesome post Bryan.
Do you have any insurance measures in case the small pieces of stainless wool start breaking apart?

[Apu]

The stainless steel type doesn't break up easily.

Edit: I should point out, I'm referring to stainless steel scrubber...not steel wool, which is very fine.

I also realise I didn't transfer everything I said in Plaything's thread - again, I bought my cars to go to the track and have therefore taken a very pragmatic view to what I use on the cars...same reason why I won't spend $3K on coilovers - the cars cost $11K each!

If I bought a new car and wanted to build it to a different level of finish, then I might consider spending $500-600 on a Radium tank (which I think is a work of art!). I still drool over their surge tank but can't bring myself to fork out that money for a track car.

[freakygeek]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that only unhealthy engines benefit from a catch can.

Engines that run larger piston to cylinder wall clearances (forged pistons mostly) can 'breathe heavy' and generate more crank case pressure which needs adequate breathing.

This article on theoldone.com claims that

"Regardless of piston ring condition, all Honda VTEC engines all suffer from excessive crankcase pressure at high power and RPM levels. This is caused by extreme piston speed, long camshaft timing events, and a PCV system that is completely inadequate at high throttle angles and low manifold vacuum levels."

Source: http://www.theoldone.com/components/breather/

This makes a lot of sense - and you don't want oil vapours in your combustion event as they greatly increase the potential of knock/detonation.

[sikboy]

I was going to say. It helps stop oil going to places where it's not supposed to go.

[Apu]

I don't disagree with what freakygeek and sikboy are saying - like I explained why I fitted one to the MX5 above. And to sikboy's point, it does help stop oil going to places where it shouldn't.

But just to play devil's advocate...how many of us have had knocking issues?

[plAythiNG]

I agree with you Bryan that the catch can setup has no performance gain to it whatsoever. Just to reiterate, I didnt mention that installing a catch can setup would yield any type of performance gain for a car. For those who hadnt seen my post, with the F20C engine the valve cover's baffle retains quite some oil at the top of the valve cover, and on high speed right hand corners, oil can flow out of mainly the PCV and potentially the breather hoses. Once you let go of the throttle, vacuum is created and thanks to this baffle the oil that is stuck at the top of the valve cover is sucked into the intake which can create smoke coming out of the car, not to mention I only want clean air going through the manifold to be burnt back in the engine.

Alot of the catch cans that I seen available for the S2000 was just an empty tin can like your Works Engineering product. Just like that "proper" catch can image you upload. I actually like that setup. The reason behind it is the inlet and outlet is totally separate, and there isnt any opportunity for any oil vapour to reach the out. Similar to the Saikou Michi setup. Link HERE

FYI for my custom setup it was only $250USD shipped. thats like that 1.3 x $250 = $325AUD*. For two cans, full custom setup, complete easy in draining the oil in each can by simply turning a valve. A quick google search on works engineering catch can gave me an eBay link HERE This is $169AUD for the one can. Assuming two that is $338AUD. So IMO the Works Engineering is quite over priced for a "hollow can" that is a generic setup, not tailored to where exactly I want the inlets/outlets, the actual size of the catch can, my preferred mounting points, and also my preferred method of draining. I dont actually like the fact that for you to drain oil in your setup, you have to remove the plumbing and wipe up the liquid with a paper towel. Potential drop of oil from the hose when removing from the can? I placed an asterisk next to my AUD price as I want everyone to know that this price excludes hoses which I have to buy myself in Australia. The reason for this is the company wanted to charge me $25USD for the hoses, and I am sure I can get it for much cheaper in Australia.

Tl, DR;

- IMO Oil catch cans do not provide any performance gain
- The unit I have ordered IMO is actually incredibly well priced against other off-the-shelf items because you can customise anything you want
- IMO if you track an S2000 with high performance street tyres, upgraded suspension as minimum mods, you should look into a catch can to alleviate any oil blow by/loss of oil

[plAythiNG]

The stainless steel type doesn't break up easily.

Edit: I should point out, I'm referring to stainless steel scrubber...not steel wool, which is very fine.

I also realise I didn't transfer everything I said in Plaything's thread - again, I bought my cars to go to the track and have therefore taken a very pragmatic view to what I use on the cars...same reason why I won't spend $3K on coilovers - the cars cost $11K each!

If I bought a new car and wanted to build it to a different level of finish, then I might consider spending $500-600 on a Radium tank (which I think is a work of art!). I still drool over their surge tank but can't bring myself to fork out that money for a track car.

Radium tank looks awesome,but I think the place they installed it, for the S2000 that is is quite poor, however I dont blame them, the S2000 engine bay really has lack of space to mount anything. My view on spending money. I dont mind paying a premium, but I need to see a need for it. I wouldnt want to use a part that is 50% cheaper for example, and it made life harder or didnt function as it should... Having said that, there would be no way I'd spend $600 on the radium tank, after the research of different setups I have looked at over the last few months.

[Apu]

Alex, my post wasn't directed at you - I should have pointed that out. My post was to highlight that it works for some, and not for others...just like both my cars.

The Saikou Michi unit is what I described as ideal.

I also said that the Works Engineering unit is a very basic unit (the 2015 RRP is actually US$75 which works out to be about A$110...even with the weak dollar - that eBay shop is not a Works Engineering dealer). In terms of cleaning it - it's actually quite simple. The top just unscrews.

What I'm getting at here is there's a bit of fear mongering (for lack of a better word) by vendors, and I've been asked by potential buyers that say "I want a catch can because it will prevent knocking" etc and my response to them is "Well are you experiencing knocking now?" or "Is your throttle body / intake manifold getting gunked up?".

If the answer is no, then...save your money. I'll sell it if they want it...but then, this isn't what I do for a living.

[tinkerbell]

how many of us have had knocking issues?

what sort of knock detector do you run?

[tinkerbell]

Here's why I have one fitted to my MX5, but not the Integra at that point in time:

MX5 -

DC2R -

does the MX5 have a factory catch-can?

the DC2R does...

[Apu]

what sort of knock detector do you run?

I'd listen out for it, and trust (hope?) the CEL will show if there is an issue. What would you do?

[tinkerbell]

so you don't have a knock detector?

how are you sure that your engine does not have pre-ignition issues?

or is your engine pretty standard?

[Apu]

Engine is stock standard.

So what's your view on catch cans Tinkerbell? You've got a fair amount of track experience.

[tinkerbell]

you at least need to modify the factory crankcase ventilation system so that it is less likely to allow oil into the intake manifold.

(your engine is designed by law to pump crankcase vapour into the manifold to be burnt)

a basic "catch can" between the crank case and the intake manifold can do this.

it is also wise to address the issue that Cam alludes to with his reference to T.O.O. - esp. with modified or boosted setups...

this can be done with additional crankcase venting at the rear of the block, or as is commonly seen - on the rocker cover, or ideally, a bit of both...