DC2R - Mugen N1 Ecu Dyno

[totti]

Hey guys

I had some spare time after work so i threw my car on our dyno to compare my OEM Ecu vs Mugen N1 Ecu

The vehicle tested is a DC2R with I/H/E

First impressions driving around the block with the mugen ecu, at WOT from idle, throttle response is so much better, and you can feel the extra torque early before vtec (cuts in 4700rpm). I do feel that vtec does cut in a bit too soon, and the graph shows it, you can certainly feel the moderate drop in power until 5200rpm roughly. But shortly after, the boost in power and torque makes up for the early switch over into vtec land, by gaining (give or take) 10kw at 5500-5700rpm. From there on power and torque is gradually and smoothly increasing.

I havent had the time (damn weather) to really go for a good drive yet to give my 2c worth, yet.

I can't thank Steve (rG') enough for letting me borrow this ecu to play around with

I'd be interested if any other forum members are running this ecu and getting their opinions

Thanks for reading
Steve

Ps. we had a small problem with our dyno, so the readings are a bit low in comparison with previous runs, as you can see "inlet temperature" was 19degrees and went as low as 15! Hardly believable when ambient temp was 24 at the time lol.

[00dc2]

excellent post! the gains look fantastic.

can you tell us what intake, headers and exhaust you have on the car?

i wonder why mugen set the cam changeover so early when its clearly too early! does anyone know if this can be changed?

your running 98 octane?

[totti]

Yes, Mobil 1 98octane

Spoon 4-1 Replica Headers
BuddyClub Spec 3 cat back with hi-flow cat
Mugen CAI

[dang]

looks like the ecu did a very nice job

[szymonsta]

very interesting.
im also running a Mugen N1 ecu in my dc2r. i have stock intake, m-bit headers, jdm cat and fgk powergetter exh.
ive been meaning to dyno the car stock vs mugen ecu but havnt had the opportunity..so thanks for sharing that info!

in relation to why the vtec changeover point is set at this level, my guess is that as this is an ecu designed for the racing series, the idea is that the car won't "drop out of VTEC" as often in the corners of the racetrack.
for example at the mallala circuit s-bends i found that with stock ecu, i was carrying too much speed to go thru in 2nd gear (rev-limiting half way thru them) but in 3rd i was dropping off the high-cam. with the N1 ecu, i could go thru in 3rd and punch it just before the clipping point and be on the high-cam without that 'lag'.

so yeah i love the ecu, i think its great! throttle response seems to sharpen up, i agree, and there is definitely more torque throughout the rev range and more punch up top. it wants to rev even harder than the stockie up near the redline (and beyond).

and in terms of fuel consumption, my calculations show an average of 9.5-10L/100km (stock ecu) vs 10.5-11L/100km (mugen ecu).

[freakygeek]

in relation to why the vtec changeover point is set at this level, my guess is that as this is an ecu designed for the racing series, the idea is that the car won't "drop out of VTEC" as often in the corners of the racetrack.
for example at the mallala circuit s-bends i found that with stock ecu, i was carrying too much speed to go thru in 2nd gear (rev-limiting half way thru them) but in 3rd i was dropping off the high-cam. with the N1 ecu, i could go thru in 3rd and punch it just before the clipping point and be on the high-cam without that 'lag'.

There is no point being on the high-lift cam if you are making less power than you would otherwise be on the lower cam.

Lag? What lag... ?? VTEC switches virtually instantly... it's not like a turbo spooling.

[fatboyz39]

Woah nice power gains!

[chuck]

There is no point being on the high-lift cam if you are making less power than you would otherwise be on the lower cam.

Lag? What lag... ?? VTEC switches virtually instantly... it's not like a turbo spooling.

This is the exact issue I am trying to counter as well. There is `lag' for me from 5000-6000 when in third on the track. When VTEC switches the car takes off. It's no point changing to 2nd because I lose time changing and it unbalances the car.

Also, on the dyno plot steve posted (thanks btw!) it is making more power on the high lift cam, and where the dip is, you would probably be using second at that speed anyway.

[tinkerbell]

so you ran the Mugen ECU first, then swapped in the OEM one?

how was the engine temp? did you have a temp gauge?

[freakygeek]

This is the exact issue I am trying to counter as well. There is `lag' for me from 5000-6000 when in third on the track. When VTEC switches the car takes off. It's no point changing to 2nd because I lose time changing and it unbalances the car.

Also, on the dyno plot steve posted (thanks btw!) it is making more power on the high lift cam, and where the dip is, you would probably be using second at that speed anyway.

I do see your point to an extent... but basically in my eyes it is still poor tuning. It looks fairly clear to me that if the VTEC crossover point was moved further upward it would further smooth the curve. We need some tuners (Adrian?) to comment on this dyno plot.

The rest of the power gains through the rev range are impressive however.

[tinkerbell]

of course it would be smoother if it were slightly higher, considering the ancillary in totti's specific setup (mugen CAI + spoon rep. 4-1's)...

however, the only way to use the ECU's specific VTEC point is to "tune the engine" to the ECU, i.e optimise the air-flow path to take advantage of the low VTEC point...

e.g. the low VTEC point might be more useful (see less of a dip) if the headers were 4-2-1 design?

[totti]

No gauges tink, only stock gauge, was just under half way, so engine the temp was fairly hot

Originally i ran the stock ecu, pulled 105kw () then ran mugen ecu and pulled 110kw. Then i found our dyno's intake temp sensor was disconnected and damaged, plugged it in, pulled 117kw with the mugen, then i went back to stock and claimed 114kw.
So after all this the sensor is still damaged which explained why my intake temps were so low, which ultimately effects the dyno readings. As long as the temps were consistent for both ecu's the comparison is still valid i think, only my max power reading is a bit low.

[tinkerbell]

No gauges tink, only stock gauge, was just under half way, so engine the temp was fairly hot

Originally i ran the stock ecu, pulled 105kw () then ran mugen ecu and pulled 110kw. Then i found our dyno's intake temp sensor was disconnected and damaged, plugged it in, pulled 117kw with the mugen, then i went back to stock and claimed 114kw.
So after all this the sensor is still damaged which explained why my intake temps were so low, which ultimately effects the dyno readings. As long as the temps were consistent for both ecu's the comparison is still valid i think, only my max power reading is a bit low.

but your cars IAT sensor was OK wasnt it?

if so - the dyno correction would have applied equal corrections on both graphs,

it would be much more enlightening to see the AFR graph though...

[totti]

but your cars IAT sensor was OK wasnt it?

if so - the dyno correction would have applied equal corrections on both graphs,

it would be much more enlightening to see the AFR graph though...

Yeah my cars sensor is fine

Regarding a/f graph - our dyno's oxygen sensor isnt working (melted from previous user ) so i couldnt get any a/f readings
If i have time next week ill try and fix everything up and have another go with a/f readings

[TODA AU]

Not bad...
Top end is good...
Swap is too low though, this is obvious from the dip.
FWIW, there's a 95% chance you'd get the same result or better from a VAFC.
Trouble with pre programed ECU's is you must modify the carexactly as it was intended to be tuned.
In this case, it's likley the header is not JDM 4~1 or MUGEN 4~1.
The long primarys allow for a lower Vtec swap.
Good 4~2~1 headers will make more power on the low cam alowing for a higher Vtec swap.

Edit: I just read the previous post... Replic Spoon headers... This could be the issue.
Cheers

Adrian