Clutch issues or box issues

[knobosaurus]

So I've got this weird occurrence during my downshifting procedures. Let's say I start from 6th and work my way down. Each time I gear down and clutch out (not dumping the clutch but releasing at a moderate speed), I hear a loud click when it engages with the clutch. Finally when I shift down to first from a sensible speed i.e. 20 kph, it's hard to push my stick into first and when it finally goes in, it makes a loud banging noise which seems to come from the clutch or gearbox.

Is this a normal thing in the dc5 or have I got a problem?

I appreciate any input from you guys.

[eLtrix]

Wish I could give you some input but personally I never go back into "1" unless I come to a complete stop. Gear 1 really is just to get you started off, if you are rolling and already moving may as well just stay in second. Anyway has always worked for me, sorry can't really give you insight on your exact problem because I never go into gear 1 really even when down shifting. Probably cause I'm a terribly lazy driver and just switch to neutral most of the time anyway... LOL

[knobosaurus]

I usually neutral it too bud. Haha it's just when I'm practising my track shifting, I downshift. I've found that I usually stay in second too at that speed but ideally if you're on a track you'd want to stay in your power band wouldn't you? In the corners where you're forced to 20 kph, you'd want to be on 1St? Iono, not a professional driver. Hoping to have that skillset one day though

Cheers for the insight though. Glad to know im not the only one who neutrals because they're lazy

[tinkerbell]

it *should* be easy to go from 6-5-4-3-2-1 if you double de-clutch or rev match.

but no idea with the clicking/banging noise is...

my advice is to drive smoother/more empathetically and see if that stops the noises?

[tinkerbell]

if you're on a track you'd want to stay in your power band wouldn't you? In the corners where you're forced to 20 kph, you'd want to be on 1St?

there might be one hillclimb track in NSW that requires this, certainly no race track in NSW that requires this.

is there somewhere in SA that does?

[eLtrix]

I usually neutral it too bud. Haha it's just when I'm practising my track shifting, I downshift. I've found that I usually stay in second too at that speed but ideally if you're on a track you'd want to stay in your power band wouldn't you? In the corners where you're forced to 20 kph, you'd want to be on 1St? Iono, not a professional driver. Hoping to have that skillset one day though

Cheers for the insight though. Glad to know im not the only one who neutrals because they're lazy

Ahh yeah, maybe for track but dont take my advice! never been on track!, I was just referring to daily driving haha. I'll give it a go later tonight going home from work if I get any "clunks". Last time I had downshifted to 2nd though, never heard any clunks or anything of the sort but I'll keep my ears extra open this time.

[knobosaurus]

Yeah tink, I rev match but haven't mastered rev matching while braking. Too unco. I've tried driving a bit smoother and the click from releasing the clutch does seem less frequent when I release it slower. The first gear bang is there regardless.

Edit: never been on a track before. Im hoping to with this car soon. Afaik, there are two tracks in SA: mallala and tailem bend. Anyone who has been to these tracks may know.

Edit 2: Justin we're on the same boat haha. Hopefully one day. Second gear downshifting isn't an issue.

[Norm]

Can I just quickly ask, how many km's has the car been through, and when was the last clutch change if it did needed changing.

[tinkerbell]

keep asking questions - there is a LOT to learn!

yes, i find that 3-2 downshift is the most important to get right for circuit racing - plus the fact it is harder as it is across the gate...

forget about going from 2-1 ever (i tried it a few times at a hillclimb circuit up here, but staying in 2nd (i.e. doing two less gear changes) was better according to the timesheet).

(that said, i have been in a traffic situation where i was in second and needed to GTFO of where i was and needed 1st ASAP so to say you *never* need it is perhaps false.)

anyways - the PROBLEM is that you cant PRACTICE this whole heel-toe rev-match double-de-clutching stuff UNLESS you're going as fast as you can...

it simply does not work, you cant practice it on the road as you are not able to go fast enough (safely).

so you need to practice a half version of it - with no braking. (brraaaake. stop braking. clutch in, revs up, clutch out *NO JERK*, accelerate)

just learning the rev-match is the most important bit as it is almost natural once you get the hang of it, and thus much easier to try to add the braking to the whole gear change at the track...

anyways,

wondering if anyone has different views to me?

i am pretty sure the noises are because you are trying something the car doesnt like - so hopefully smoothness will prevail.

but if it doesnt, sadly i think there may be gearbox damage (as opposed to cheaper clutch damage)

[Norm]

Dave - Could it be either the CMC or Slave Cylinder showing signs of wear/malfunction causing the clutch to possible have difficulties disengaging? I mean if his struggling to get it from 6th, progressively to 2nd with sounds of clicking and 2 -> 1. I must say though, if the clutch is not disengaging, he shouldn't be able to even put it in first gear and move the car at all, he'd come across resistance.

[knobosaurus]

Can I just quickly ask, how many km's has the car been through, and when was the last clutch change if it did needed changing.

Got the Honda history of the car from the moment it landed here (apparently not even supposed to have been given to me). No clutch changes at Honda afaik. Previous owner before me was pretty dodgy so maybe they didn't do one or if they did, they never kept re paperwork. Km wise, it's sitting at 167k km. What do you think norm?

keep asking questions - there is a LOT to learn!

yes, i find that 3-2 downshift is the most important to get right for circuit racing - plus the fact it is harder as it is across the gate...

forget about going from 2-1 ever (i tried it a few times at a hillclimb circuit up here, but staying in 2nd (i.e. doing two less gear changes) was better according to the timesheet).

(that said, i have been in a traffic situation where i was in second and needed to GTFO of where i was and needed 1st ASAP so to say you *never* need it is perhaps false.)

anyways - the PROBLEM is that you cant PRACTICE this whole heel-toe rev-match double-de-clutching stuff UNLESS you're going as fast as you can...

it simply does not work, you cant practice it on the road as you are not able to go fast enough (safely).

so you need to practice a half version of it - with no braking. (brraaaake. stop braking. clutch in, revs up, clutch out *NO JERK*, accelerate)

just learning the rev-match is the most important bit as it is almost natural once you get the hang of it, and thus much easier to try to add the braking to the whole gear change at the track...

anyways,

wondering if anyone has different views to me?

i am pretty sure the noises are because you are trying something the car doesnt like - so hopefully smoothness will prevail.

but if it doesnt, sadly i think there may be gearbox damage (as opposed to cheaper clutch damage)

Cheers for the direction tink. It makes much more sense now knowing that I can't practice heel toe without going as fast as I can. Considering im always going at like 60 kph, it's hard to have an opportunity to practice. And lately I have been practising that half technique. Need to improve more though.

Yeah I suspected that those noises aren't healthy which is why I need guidance on diagnosing.

Thanks for the advice though tink. Can you be my online track driving coach? I'd like to start learning techniques like these but I don't know where to start apart from rev matching.

[Norm]

Well, just looking through alot of threads regarding the DC5 and RSX, clutch replacement seem to occur between 90-120k's, I could be mistaken however and your car has been driven sensibly to last till now. The discussion held on this thread is quite limited. I mean, we're trying to diagnose something without doing a biopsy of the transmission. Could you possibly, check to see if your CMC and Slave Master Cylinder and lines are intact and no signs of failure or leaks.

[knobosaurus]

Hmmm I was thinking of getting a new clutch as part of my purge of the previous owner's negligence. Good suggestion norm, I'll check my cmc and csc when I get home. I just thought someone else would have experienced the same thing as me and would know what,the problem was.

[Norm]

Please check inside where the pedals are to see whether the CMC is leaking inside too. Quite common if CMC fail, or the seal requires replacing, you will see slight oil leaks and also a reduced clutch fluid in the reservoir.

[knobosaurus]

Yep duly noted. I did have a look at the cmc a while ago and didn't notice anything too out of the ordinary. The clutch fluid reservoir is the small cylindrical container next to the bmc right? Or am I far off?