DC5 Lowering issues

[Norm]

4) Would it just be easier to get a lip/bodykit to achieve the "lower" look and just deal with the tyre/guard space whilst enjoying the better comfort/drivability/sustainability of the factory height?

In answering your proposal of having a lip/bodykit to make the car look lower has its advantages. Honda engineers have done the hard work in the geometry of the vehicle and at the stock components and height, have actually done the hard maths of calculating the travel for components such as your LCA, your roll centre and your tie rods. Keeping every suspension component to its original geometry certainly has its benefits than changing it!

The problem with people modifying the suspension componenets is its always a balancing act. Once people lower it, their LCA angle changes. People then try to mod their tie rods to account for the inability to achieve 0 toe on stock components. But looking at your first post, your more focused on the look/stance perspective. I doubt you'd be lowering the vehicle too much to really cause detrimental harm to your stability and handling. Remember, achieving certain looks/performances come with sacrifices.

[plAythiNG]

Just buy some bc racing coilovers and slam it! Getting a bodykit/lip for dc5 is harder than getting coilovers imo.

When u slam it, a wheel alignment to fix up the toe will be fine(i hope) and get some more agro wheels to fill in the guards

[Norm]

Just buy some bc racing coilovers and slam it! Getting a bodykit/lip for dc5 is harder than getting coilovers imo.

When u slam it, a wheel alignment to fix up the toe will be fine(i hope) and get some more agro wheels to fill in the guards

You have to admit though, a wheel alignment doesn't solve all the geometry problems of lowering a vehicle. However saying that, from his first post it doesn't seem like he will be tracking it too often. More spirited driving I'm guessing.

[fr4n]

You have to admit though, a wheel alignment doesn't solve all the geometry problems of lowering a vehicle. However saying that, from his first post it doesn't seem like he will be tracking it too often. More spirited driving I'm guessing.

roll centre adjusters do, however

[inertia]

1) Will the factory shocks support the king springs? If not it seems that there is nowhere to get new ones?

You can probably put any spring on as long as they fit on the spring seat, but you need to know what you're doing to be able to maintain enough travel, otherwise you'll be hitting the bumpstops. There would be a lot of things you would need to consider, some of them are - spring length, diameter, spring height, spring rate etc

Easier route is choose lowering springs which are manufactured for specific vehicles/dampers (in this case the DC5), normally these aren't stiff enough to stop the suspension from running out of travel during track use, and i'm guessing huge bumps, I'm assuming they'd be fine for daily use. The main reason they probably aren't made stiff enough is probably because the OEM damper wouldn't be valved for it.

2) Will the 30mm drop throw the camber settings right out? Which some people have suggested will begin chewing tyres or is this only at lower heights?

It's not camber that chews tyres, it's the toe change. So if you do end up lowering the DC5 you will need to make sure the toe is set correctly, based on your own preference. 0 Toe would be the best if you want your tyres to live as long as possible. You can probably have -4 degrees of camber with 0 toe, rotate your tyres regularly and still get good kms off a set of tyres.

3) Most people suggest getting coilovers but I believe these will ride too rough for a daily driven car and wouldn't this still result in the same camber issues as the springs?

Properly valved coilovers will be a lot better than using lowering springs with the stock damper. It wouldn't be the same as lowering springs + OEM damper because the dampers are actually valved correctly for the springs that are used (well they should be valved correctly).

The DC5 can be lowered 25mm without inducing bumpsteer, but once you've passed 25mm you need to either have

1. Stiff enough springs to reduce the amount of travel the suspension goes through - i.e. stop the suspension from reaching the point it causes bumpsteer

2. Coilovers with the steering arm located lower on the damper body than the OEM damper, I believe BC RSD coilovers have a 1.75" lower steering arm, I wouldn't be able to tell you what the optimal ride height would be with those coilovers. You should only lower the car to the point where the tie rods are angled at OEM height or at the 25mm drop height.

Another thing you should consider when lowering is the change in roll centre, again a 25mm drop should be fine and should actually put the roll centre at a better location. I'm only assuming this based off the fact that the JDM EP3 Type R has a stock height of 345mm from hub centre to guard where as the AUDM DC5R is 370mm (I believe that's what I measured, would have to check my notes on that) and that Honda actually engineered the EP3R to have optimal geometry.

I got the bumpsteer info off another poster on Ozhonda who's built a DC5 race car (with correct geometry i'm assuming). It does collaborate with the fact that the AUDM DC5R height is 25mm higher than the EP3R though. I could be completely incorrect about the roll centre, maybe the EP3R suspension is actually completely different to the AUDM DC5R and actually has the correct components to give it good geometry at the lower ride height.

4) Would it just be easier to get a lip/bodykit to achieve the "lower" look and just deal with the tyre/guard space whilst enjoying the better comfort/drivability/sustainability of the factory height?

This along with a 25mm drop is probably the easiest way as you don't have to worry too much about suspension geometry getting screwed.

roll centre adjusters do, however

If you do end up getting roll centre adjusters, you need to know how much longer the RCAs are over the OEM ball joints, and you would need to work out how much the RCA would actually affect roll centre height. I don't know if this has a 1:1 relationship with the actual length of the RCA vs OEM ball joint and how much the RC actually changes.

[fr4n]

If you do end up getting roll centre adjusters, you need to know how much longer the RCAs are over the OEM ball joints, and you would need to work out how much the RCA would actually affect roll centre height. I don't know if this has a 1:1 relationship with the actual length of the RCA vs OEM ball joint and how much the RC actually changes.

sounds dodgey, but ive laid infront of the car and the front lca are a t a very slight angle upward.

using my incredible imagination i was able to picture the knuckle and lca with the js racing roll centre inserted, and it would bring the lca parallel to the road if not slightly downward.

afaik, parallel or downard angle will bring roll centre back in optimum positon relative to centre of gravity.

i maybe completely fucken wrong but lol

[inertia]

sounds dodgey, but ive laid infront of the car and the front lca are a t a very slight angle upward.

using my incredible imagination i was able to picture the knuckle and lca with the js racing roll centre inserted, and it would bring the lca parallel to the road if not slightly downward.

afaik, parallel or downard angle will bring roll centre back in optimum positon relative to centre of gravity.

i maybe completely fucken wrong but lol

lol, eying it is better than nothing, as long as it's pretty close to OEM at least you know it's not way off. In general parallel or slightly downward angle (this is looking at it from the inner pivot to the wheel) is okay as it allows camber gain, but having the OEM setup as a reference point is probably the safest way.

[bennet654]

I love how OP is asking questions, but giving his answers to them...
stock shocks are garbage with springs.. u fk the cars handling and integrity and yes they will blow... you can buy coilovers that will be softer than your stock ones... get BC coils and get spring rates of (4F6R) that will be nice and cooshy for you

[BRACETDC]

Thanks for the solid info inertia

So I should be able to get away with a 25mm drop with no issues? What's the best/most cost effective way to achieve this?

Should I get that JDM Type R set-up I mentioned earlier? How much lower than an AUDM base model would this be?

[BRACETDC]

bennet654

Where's the best place to get BC coils? Have you hads a car with this setup?

[inertia]

Thanks for the solid info inertia

So I should be able to get away with a 25mm drop with no issues? What's the best/most cost effective way to achieve this?

Should I get that JDM Type R set-up I mentioned earlier? How much lower than an AUDM base model would this be?

I'll have to guess that the JDM DC5R is the same height as the JDM EP3R, not 100% sure, never seen one. I have an EP3R and mate has an AUDM DC5R, that's how I compared the height difference, tie rod/steering arm angles and lower control arm angels - they all look like they would sit at the same angles (as the EP3R) if the DC5R was lowered 25mm. So I can only confirm that the EP3R is 25mm lower than the AUDM DC5R, and based off that there shouldn't be any negative effects to suspension geometry if lowered 25mm.

Really depends how much the JDM DC5R coilovers cost, if you find them for cheap then why not. If you're looking at the $1500 - $2000 range, there's definitely better stuff out there. I recommended the KW Variant 2 to my mate, I think they're about $2000 delivered from the US or UK, or if you want cheaper there's the Variant 1 (no valving adjustment). There are heaps of alternatives though, as long as the dampers don't experience any fading I really don't think there are huge advantages of choosing 1 brand over another (for street use). KWs are known to have very good valving adjustability for their price, as in each click gives you a noticeable change to the valving - I don't know of any coilovers in that price range which gives the same adjustability. Here's a good read on different dampers - http://ebookbrowse.com/scc-s2k-shootout-pdf-d217851232, it's for the s2000 but that doesn't really matter.

Sorry, no personal experience with BCs, maybe someone else can chime in about them.

[BRACETDC]

Pretty keen to stick with spring/shock setup, so how would I go wih something like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tanabe-DF...item4d00fc3bf8

[aRze]

I recommended the KW Variant 2 to my mate, I think they're about $2000 delivered from the US or UK, or if you want cheaper there's the Variant 1 (no valving adjustment). There are heaps of alternatives though, as long as the dampers don't experience any fading I really don't think there are huge advantages of choosing 1 brand over another (for street use). KWs are known to have very good valving adjustability for their price, as in each click gives you a noticeable change to the valving - I don't know of any coilovers in that price range which gives the same adjustability.

Ah yes, this is because the KW Variant 2 are rebound adjustable only. There are a number of shock dynos for a lot of single knob compression/rebound adjustable that show that they're in fact not very linear across their adjustment range.
I'm no tech guru, but the set-ups that work best from a pure performance and technical data point of view are ones that are single rebound adjustable or have separate adjustment for compression AND rebound.

KW suspension makes great setups, even on the Variant 1, which has fixed damping rates. This can be a deterrent to some who want to turn things full stiff for track, but you can be assured that companies like KW, Bilstein, Koni etc. work amazing off the shelf!

I've heard BC Racing BR RA series are very streetable. They're marketed as a dual purpose street/circuit coilover. I've read a review for the s2000 though, but that was very positive review.

For the Tanabe/KYB setup you linked, it's worth searching forums like clubrsx and hondatech to see what people think. The spring rate choice doesn't look to bad, but I'm not sure how well tuned the dampers are. For things like suspension, my view is you get what you pay for.

[mj_23_nc]

hi guys, just on a topic of DC5 Suspension...does anyone know where i can find a second hand OEM DC5 Type-S suspension. I seem to like the original geometry design and handling of an "inverted spring" compared to my current Buddy Club (which came with the car)

[a.tran]

I currently have an 05 dc5 lux which is lowered with tein springs which I've been using for approx 70xxxkm and I haven't ran into any problems as of yet. I also have to drive 1hr to get to work (bankstown to Mona vale) not so short LOL the ride comfort is great for a daily drive.