Throttle response - Haltech ECU

[ggwpty]

Just got my car tuned and after giving it some-time to drive around, I've noticed that the throttle response is still off. Seems a little delayed and when I blip the revs just don't climb up right ... I'd have to pretty much give it a full throttle mash to build the revs high enough. I say 'still off' because it was like this after I had put my haltech ECU in + loaded a basemap. I guess I assumed it would be fixed after a full tune. So my question is if throttle response is a parameter which can easily be tweaked? I'm going to go back to the tuner and ask on Tuesday, but I thought I'd ask here in the mean-time

also, I feel a little sceptical that a thorough tune was done, given that they did it in around 3 hours. Power/torque is good, but it just doesn't feel right. Not sure if it's just the weird/poor throttle response making me feel that way


cheers guys

[Flippit]

Kevin was telling me about this on my car and he reckons its just the throttle cable that needs to be adjusted on the throttle body. Ask munkaii more about it

[Norm]

Not sure whether I'm right or not. But aren't they meant to do a partial throttle tune as well? As well as a WOT?. That usually smooths out your throttle response when its only partially open.

Norm

[ggwpty]

Kevin was telling me about this on my car and he reckons its just the throttle cable that needs to be adjusted on the throttle body. Ask munkaii more about it

Hmm, thing is that before I removed the stock ECU, everything is normal, but once the haltech went in it pretty much totally changed the throttle response. Unless I'd need to adjust the cable to compensate for whatever the haltech ECU changed?

Not sure whether I'm right or not. But aren't they meant to do a partial throttle tune as well? As well as a WOT?. That usually smooths out your throttle response when its only partially open.

Norm

Yeah, I was kind of thinking along those lines as well ... like I said, 3hrs to fully tune a car seems pretty darn quick. Usually I get quotes saying it'll take around 6-7 hours.

[tinkerbell]

a 'proper' tune takes 5+ hours... and should cost 500+

i think Norm is right - if they didn't spend any time on the part throttle maps, your car is going to suck everywhere but the racetrack...

or maybe the tuner assumed the base map part throttle was OK? and left it alone...

communications is THE KEY to happy dyno tuning, people give their car to a tuner and expect the tuner to 'magic' the car faster...

you should have told him about the base map effect on your car, and asked the tuner what to expect from the tuning once the car is given back.

good luck tomorrow, it will probly take a bit more time and a bit more cash to get it right... but it is worth it.

[tinkerbell]

Kevin was telling me about this on my car and he reckons its just the throttle cable that needs to be adjusted on the throttle body. Ask munkaii more about it

a loose throttle cable is quite evident on a dyno session, any tuner would pick this up pretty quickly...

(the ECU tells the tuner the throttle percentage on the laptop)

[munkaii]

Is there a certain throttle % you need to set it at prior to tuning?

You make a good point tinker about how many people get tunes and look at the final figure but don't consider the drive ability of the car on the road.

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[tinkerbell]

Is there a certain throttle % you need to set it at prior to tuning?

the tuner tunes part throttle in RPM steps at various load conditions,

e.g. 2000rpm then 3000rpm then 4000rpm then maybe 5000 - or more steps if he is doing a proper job...

(he holds his foot on the accelerator to get the chosen RPM, and adjusts the dyno rollers (load) to keep the car steady RPM and fine tunes the AFR at that point, then increases load (which means he needs to press more on the accelerator to keep the chosen RPM), then tunes AFR, then increases load and tunes AFR etcetc)

this is how a full part throttle map is "built"

it is VERY boring, and sees your headers glowing...

but mine was tuned this way, and i get 8l/100km and make around 160kW from a 2 litre engine...

[ggwpty]

a 'proper' tune takes 5+ hours... and should cost 500+

i think Norm is right - if they didn't spend any time on the part throttle maps, your car is going to suck everywhere but the racetrack...

or maybe the tuner assumed the base map part throttle was OK? and left it alone...

communications is THE KEY to happy dyno tuning, people give their car to a tuner and expect the tuner to 'magic' the car faster...

you should have told him about the base map effect on your car, and asked the tuner what to expect from the tuning once the car is given back.

good luck tomorrow, it will probly take a bit more time and a bit more cash to get it right... but it is worth it.

Yeah, you're definitely right. I didn't give him any specific details on what I wanted from the tune, so I guess that's a bit of poor communication on my part. If it ends up costing me a lot more money to get right, I'd be a little disappointed, but it is what it is and I'll write this all off as a learning experience. Fingers crossed it all works out.

Is there a certain throttle % you need to set it at prior to tuning?

You make a good point tinker about how many people get tunes and look at the final figure but don't consider the drive ability of the car on the road.

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I specified to them that I'm not interested in the final peak power figure, I just want a reliable tune for a daily driven car; decent power delivery around low-mid range. Granted that's what I specified to them when I booked my car in, weeks before it was tuned, so I don't know if they remembered when I brought my car in...

[ggwpty]

Just got back from the tuner. Apparently what I'm experiencing with the revs not building when I blip is normal, given that the whole engine management is no longer Honda. I asked if anything can be done to alter it so the revs will pick up higher when I blip, and apparently nothing can really be done other altering the spark timing / running the car richer. I guess I gotta live with it if that's the case?

[tinkerbell]

pfft... that's a weak ass response!

"nothing can be done, other than alter the timing and AFR"

well, DUH! that is what "tuning" is guys!

= go to another tuner!

maybe email Adrian at TODA http://www.todaracing.com.au/toda/gp/

he is a Haltech expert... see if he says it is 'normal'

[Bodgy Racing Developments]

i call bullshit excuse.

tinkerbell is on the money!

[ggwpty]

Thanks tinkerbell, i'll do that.

Dunno ... everything else seems fine other than the fact when I clutch in and blip, the revs just don't build up ... small-ish problem, but it completely takes away the fun of rev-matching and that's one thing I really enjoy about driving the integra.

Ah well =/ appreciate your help guys!

[ggwpty]

At the recent QLD meet, Robi took my car for a quick spin and he agreed that the revs just don't build up properly when you blip (like it's asthmatic, lol). I've done some research and had a quick chat with Adrian ... his immediate answer when I described the issue was that they had perhaps forgotten to tweak or enable transient throttle/throttle pump settings (this setting aids in improving engine response when you rapidly open the throttle. You can either add additional injection pulses or enrich the current pulses with more fuel). At this stage, I'm fairly convinced that it's just this setting that requires some tweaking.

Also - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEbaU...ure=plpp_video from about 1:58 onwards, is exactly what my car is like when I blip the throttle

Adrian said I could just boot up the ECU manager myself and tweak it to get the desired throttle response, but the tuner might have locked their tune map (preventing me from viewing/editing it). So, I'll going to see the tuner again and bring up what Adrian told me and see how they respond. If they still stand-by their position that it's normal, then I think I might have to take it to someone else. Or ask them to unlock the tune map (if it's locked) so I can view and edit it. Though I'm not sure if that's a reasonable request? I did pay for it so I assume I have the right to fiddle around with it if I wanted to (at my own risk).

Lol, this is kinda stressing me out =/

[munkaii]

Boot it up yourself mate before you decide take it up with the tuner. No harm right?

If there's any uncertainty consult users manual or send some screenshots Adrian's way to check

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