S2000. Thoughts?

[stephen8512]

Hey guys. Long time lurker, first time poster

I know this is Club ITR but I know some members here own S2000's. I've went on youtube and checked out S2Ki as well for answers. I have an opportunity to purchase an S2000 but there's still a few things I'm confused about so I'd thought i'd ask some people here what they think about it all.

- For those that own AP1's, would you buy an AP2 if you could do it again provided everything was all okay? (price was within budget, body, colour, etc)

- Is there much of a difference aside from exterior cosmetics, wheels, glass roof from MY02, different style seats and dash cluster when comparing AP1 and AP2? I think the rear subframe on AP2 is different, but anything else? As in, can the changes be noted as a "facelift" more than anything? AFAIK, the AP1 and AP2 are still the F20C and not the F22C that the US got with their AP2's?

- If we have an AP1 and AP2 for sale, both travelled same amount of kms, both stock and both well maintained with regular servicing intervals, is the AP2 worth the extra money simply because it's "newer" and a "facelift"?

- How is the S2K as a daily? I know it doesn't have much low down torque and have been told that if you were to short shift, it doesn't feel any different than driving something like an EK Civic for example....

- Have you regretted buying your S2K? If so, why?

- What is it about your S2K that you love?

- What is some things you dislike about the S2K?

- Any major problems in owning one, whether it be maintenance

- What are some things to look out for when buying one second hand from your experience?


Sorry for the long first post guys. I'll intro myself properly in the newbies section soon

CHeers and thanks in advance!

[eskimo_firefighter]

Welcome mate.

- For those that own AP1's, would you buy an AP2 if you could do it again provided everything was all okay? (price was within budget, body, colour, etc)

Nope, the price difference between an AP1 and AP2 is too great for me. I'd rather buy an AP1, modify it a tiny bit and enjoy it at the track as much as possible.

- Is there much of a difference aside from exterior cosmetics, wheels, glass roof from MY02, different style seats and dash cluster when comparing AP1 and AP2? I think the rear subframe on AP2 is different, but anything else? As in, can the changes be noted as a "facelift" more than anything? AFAIK, the AP1 and AP2 are still the F20C and not the F22C that the US got with their AP2's?

Rear subframe is optimized, apparently fixed the AP1's tendency to oversteer. Supposedly the AP2 is more predictable to drive at the limit and the rear is less like to snap out on you. AP2 also has drive by wire opposed to the AP1 drive by cable. AP1/AP2 in Australia all have the F20c. Different sway bar sizes too (can't remember on top of my head) and slightly different spring rates. Probably many things I missed too.

- If we have an AP1 and AP2 for sale, both travelled same amount of kms, both stock and both well maintained with regular servicing intervals, is the AP2 worth the extra money simply because it's "newer" and a "facelift"?

Pretty much, lol.

- How is the S2K as a daily? I know it doesn't have much low down torque and have been told that if you were to short shift, it doesn't feel any different than driving something like an EK Civic for example....

I don't drive my S2000 daily. But it's lacking in the low end torque department big time. Yeah pretty much driving the car normally under 3.5k RPM it's not that exciting, 9000 is where the fun is at . Also forgot to mention that with the top up, blind spot on the drivers side is pretty annoying. If driving to work was a viable option for me I'd have no problems dailying my S2000 everyday if it was stock.

- Have you regretted buying your S2K? If so, why?

No Ragrets.

- What is it about your S2K that you love?

How fun it is to drive at the limit (at the track of course). And how it can do this repeatedly without many modifications required. So it's a relatively cheap car to have fun in.

[stephen8512]

Thanks mate! That was an excellent response and really helped me out a lot!

The low down torque is what I'm worried about. I own a Golf R which I have modified and am used to the turbo spool and the torque. Not sure how I'd adjust to going back to NA, especially if all the theatre is up in the higher rev ranges... I know theyre two totally different cars and the S2K is more a drivers car than my Golf R which is why I'm considering it...

I've added 3 more questions to my original post...

[eskimo_firefighter]

No worries. Ahh coming from a Golf R, the torque difference is huge. Best to test drive an s2000 yourself and decide whether you can live with it.

- What is some things you dislike about the S2K?
Not many dislikes. But the AP1 soft top sucks ass with the plastic window. Not an issue with the AP2 with glass top, looks 10x better too. But that's about it? Previously mentioned low end torque isn't its forte, but the motor revs to 9k so that more then makes up for it, haha.

- Any major problems in owning one, whether it be maintenance
No major issues or even minor mechanical issues at all, they're pretty robust cars.

- What are some things to look out for when buying one second hand from your experience?
From my experience, many I've inspected looked like they've been in a collision. Clutch buzz was common. Tears in the soft top is common (a bit costly to replace). Noisy timing chain tensioner. And even a failing electronic power steering system. Torn carpet for some reason under floor mats. With an AP2 you're less likely to encounter any of these issues.

[plAythiNG]

Do it stephen!

I love the S2000. Top down motoring is awesome. The shifting is excellent. The handling is great. Even stock.

I love how it is a drivers car. I like how there is a radio door to block out bright lights. I like how honda purposely made the stereo/ac controls dimmed. How the only bright thing is the cluster which is most important.

I hate the long oem gearing of the S2000. If you get one. 100% consider a shorter final drive.

Like all hondas you need to splash some coin to improve it better than factory. Consider final drive as mentioned, as well as a bigger wheel/tyre setup. 17 inch is a great start and aim for a rear tyre width of at least 245/40/17.

Now to answer sone of your questions. Imo the S2000 stock isnt the best as a daily. Long gearing, poor blijd spots as peter mentioned, and thirsty of fuel. I wouldnt consider it a daily. I guess i been spoiled with cars thay consume 6-8L/100km. I would never daily the S2000. IMO this is a bad decision as I would assume you would completely lose the feeling this car brings on the weekend when there is no peak hour and no real deadlines like getting to work on time.

I have owned my car for 9-10months. Being a 15 year old car. I would start off with a full fluid flush, braided brake lines, new vtec solenoid gasket..

For me i have done all that and have alot of new seals to repace eventually.

Ap1 versus ap2. Really. Whatever fits your budget or the car to buy. Look. Everyone will prefer the ap2 given the same price as ap1. Most people go ap1 cos cheaper but more importantly much much more common.

[eskimo_firefighter]

Changing to the shorter final drive from the OEM 4.1 can definitely help with the lack of low end torque. But you have to consider the pros and cons of this. It will affect fuel consumption and you will be shifting more quickly and regularly of which may get annoying for daily use. To see what you may prefer hop on S2KI and research the gearing of the car. There are many final drives to choose from. 4.44, 4.57, 4.77 and even a 3.9.

Fuel consumption isn't that bad, from memory IF driven conservatively with 9-10L/100km. I guess this is bad considering its an N/A 4 cylinder, but I'd imagine this wouldn't be that much of an issue moving from a modded Golf R which probably drinks a fair bit?

[plAythiNG]

Fair point re fuel conaumption when moving from a golf r.

I personallly reckon going shorter fd pros outweigh any cons associated

[stephen8512]

Do it stephen!

I love the S2000. Top down motoring is awesome. The shifting is excellent. The handling is great. Even stock.

I love how it is a drivers car. I like how there is a radio door to block out bright lights. I like how honda purposely made the stereo/ac controls dimmed. How the only bright thing is the cluster which is most important.

I hate the long oem gearing of the S2000. If you get one. 100% consider a shorter final drive.

Like all hondas you need to splash some coin to improve it better than factory. Consider final drive as mentioned, as well as a bigger wheel/tyre setup. 17 inch is a great start and aim for a rear tyre width of at least 245/40/17.

Now to answer sone of your questions. Imo the S2000 stock isnt the best as a daily. Long gearing, poor blijd spots as peter mentioned, and thirsty of fuel. I wouldnt consider it a daily. I guess i been spoiled with cars thay consume 6-8L/100km. I would never daily the S2000. IMO this is a bad decision as I would assume you would completely lose the feeling this car brings on the weekend when there is no peak hour and no real deadlines like getting to work on time.

I have owned my car for 9-10months. Being a 15 year old car. I would start off with a full fluid flush, braided brake lines, new vtec solenoid gasket..

For me i have done all that and have alot of new seals to repace eventually.

Ap1 versus ap2. Really. Whatever fits your budget or the car to buy. Look. Everyone will prefer the ap2 given the same price as ap1. Most people go ap1 cos cheaper but more importantly much much more common.

Thanks for your insights mate! Really much appreciated! Blind spots is pretty poor but thats why you have the drop top right?

You wouldn't consider daily driving your S2K? Because I was considering it

Changing to the shorter final drive from the OEM 4.1 can definitely help with the lack of low end torque. But you have to consider the pros and cons of this. It will affect fuel consumption and you will be shifting more quickly and regularly of which may get annoying for daily use. To see what you may prefer hop on S2KI and research the gearing of the car. There are many final drives to choose from. 4.44, 4.57, 4.77 and even a 3.9.

Fuel consumption isn't that bad, from memory IF driven conservatively with 9-10L/100km. I guess this is bad considering its an N/A 4 cylinder, but I'd imagine this wouldn't be that much of an issue moving from a modded Golf R which probably drinks a fair bit?

Will a shorter final drive make that much of a noticeable difference in the low end torque at the end of the day?

9-10L/100km is actually pretty thirsty? My modded Golf R takes in about on average 8.5-9L/100km when driven conservatively? Spirited drives can see it go up to arount the 13-14L mark if you're on boost a lot. Maybe the advancements in technology? Who knows....

[dfdc2r]

I daily drive my S2000, and at this rate I will be doing approx 20,000km a year.

In my opinion it may not be the ideal car to daily drive for several reasons:
- Lack of seating/storage capacity
- Lack of luxuries/toys for driver comfort and convenience, it really is a car designed for driving only. (ie. Cruise Control ect.)
- Blind spots with the roof up
- Relatively poor fuel economy for a naturally aspirated 2.0l 4 Cylinder, but remember it makes quite a bit of power. (9-10l/100km with normal mixed driving)
- NVH levels are high as it is a 15 year old soft top convertible. Road/wind noise is noticeable, things rattle and make noises. Adding the usual suspension/wheels/tyres to improve the performance of the car just makes all of this worse.
- Stone chips, dents, and scratches are bound to make their way onto a daily driven car, its just a shame because it's such a beautiful/special car compared to say a Golf R.
- You may end up putting a lot of KM on the car.
- Lack of low end torque I guess, but if you don't drive like a maniac then it shouldn't be a problem. I don't find myself needing to exceed 3500rpm too often when driving normally.
- 15 year old car = lots of maintenance on wear and tear parts. (However VW's aren't exactly reliable and are quite costly to fix and source parts for)

Despite all of these drawbacks, driving the car everyday allows me to enjoy it and appreciate it more. Whenever I switch back to a more comfortable/practical/sedate car for a few days, I always itch to get back into the S2000. It feels special and fun to drive even at low speeds, and its great when the roads are clear or if the weather is nice enough for you to put the top down. I have no regrets with purchasing this car after 7 months of ownership and daily driving. It's an involving car to drive which keeps you focused on driving, no overly complicated technology such as unnecessary driving modes and all of that other gimmicky nonsense. And of course you can't forget that amazing engine! I'd struggle to give this car up for anything less than a Boxster/Cayman S, that's how much I like the car haha.

Funnily enough I was considering a Golf R at the same time. The car has some good points, powerful and useable engine with lots of potential for aftermarket tuning, comfort/luxury/practicality ect. However I'd not a fan of the Haldex AWD system and the overall handling dynamics. The car is quick in a straight line yes, but overall it just wasn't that exciting to drive, just a golf with a powerful engine really. Still a great car though and I can understand why it's so popular.
The best thing for you to do is test drive both, they are 2 very different cars and I'm sure you'll be able to decide which is better for you after experiencing both first hand.

[Toddxxx]

Hey man and welcome
I've owned my 01 S2000 since December 2013 so I guess I can help with your questions. Most have been answered already so I'll just give my opinion on them briefly.

-For those that own AP1's, would you buy an AP2 if you could do it again provided everything was all okay? (price was within budget, body, colour, etc)
Given the massive price difference id still stay with AP1 and mod it instead. AP2 is all about the wank factor imo haha
Modifying the AP1 basically negates all the positives the AP2 has in stock form.

- Is there much of a difference aside from exterior cosmetics, wheels, glass roof from MY02, different style seats and dash cluster when comparing AP1 and AP2? I think the rear subframe on AP2 is different, but anything else? As in, can the changes be noted as a "facelift" more than anything? AFAIK, the AP1 and AP2 are still the F20C and not the F22C that the US got with their AP2's?
As mentioned cosmetics were updated, suspension was tweaked to handle better etc. a few engine components were also upgraded to rectify small issues found with the AP1.
Basically the AP2 is more of a facelift version in aus as we don't have the F22 motor.

- If we have an AP1 and AP2 for sale, both travelled same amount of kms, both stock and both well maintained with regular servicing intervals, is the AP2 worth the extra money simply because it's "newer" and a "facelift"?
It's a newer model so it's always going to be more expensive. It comes down to whether it is worth it to you. Do you spend that extra money for a well refined newer version or do you buy the older/cheaper version that is well looked after and still have money to play around with it.

- How is the S2K as a daily? I know it doesn't have much low down torque and have been told that if you were to short shift, it doesn't feel any different than driving something like an EK Civic for example....
I don't daily the s2000 really. It basically only gets driven to/from the track and occasionally for work.
That said coming from a golf R you will notice the power/torque difference greatly
Myself though when driving I'm not trying to take off at the lights like a drag race so it feels the same as any other car. As it's a convertible NVH is higher than other cars but not that bad.
Blind spot is bad as with any convertible.

- Have you regretted buying your S2K? If so, why?
I don't regret getting a s2000 as I absolutely love them but maybe there's a little twinge of regret for getting my specific S2000 as I got a more expensive super clean/low KM example then went and "ruined" it by making it a semi track car haha. I just feel bad as it was such a nice car to begin with haha

- What is it about your S2K that you love?
pure fun to drive. When modified correctly it's an absolute machine at the track.
9000rpm!!!

- What is some things you dislike about the S2K?
Its a convertible. S2000 would be the perfect car if it was released as a coupe. I've removed soft top and put a hard top in though so same same haha

- Any major problems in owning one, whether it be maintenance
It's a Honda so with the right care and maintenance the motor/car should last forever
Oil filter is super easy to get to which is a plus!

- What are some things to look out for when buying one second hand from your experience?
Just the usual stuff, get it inspected by a professional, do a revs check and make sure everything checks out. Check to make sure all the main systems are working properly etc


Hopefully that helps you in your quest for a s2000
Ps. I want to buy a golf R soon to actually use as a daily

[stephen8512]

I daily drive my S2000, and at this rate I will be doing approx 20,000km a year.

In my opinion it may not be the ideal car to daily drive for several reasons:
- Lack of seating/storage capacity
- Lack of luxuries/toys for driver comfort and convenience, it really is a car designed for driving only. (ie. Cruise Control ect.)
- Blind spots with the roof up
- Relatively poor fuel economy for a naturally aspirated 2.0l 4 Cylinder, but remember it makes quite a bit of power. (9-10l/100km with normal mixed driving)
- NVH levels are high as it is a 15 year old soft top convertible. Road/wind noise is noticeable, things rattle and make noises. Adding the usual suspension/wheels/tyres to improve the performance of the car just makes all of this worse.
- Stone chips, dents, and scratches are bound to make their way onto a daily driven car, its just a shame because it's such a beautiful/special car compared to say a Golf R.
- You may end up putting a lot of KM on the car.
- Lack of low end torque I guess, but if you don't drive like a maniac then it shouldn't be a problem. I don't find myself needing to exceed 3500rpm too often when driving normally.
- 15 year old car = lots of maintenance on wear and tear parts. (However VW's aren't exactly reliable and are quite costly to fix and source parts for)

Despite all of these drawbacks, driving the car everyday allows me to enjoy it and appreciate it more. Whenever I switch back to a more comfortable/practical/sedate car for a few days, I always itch to get back into the S2000. It feels special and fun to drive even at low speeds, and its great when the roads are clear or if the weather is nice enough for you to put the top down. I have no regrets with purchasing this car after 7 months of ownership and daily driving. It's an involving car to drive which keeps you focused on driving, no overly complicated technology such as unnecessary driving modes and all of that other gimmicky nonsense. And of course you can't forget that amazing engine! I'd struggle to give this car up for anything less than a Boxster/Cayman S, that's how much I like the car haha.

Funnily enough I was considering a Golf R at the same time. The car has some good points, powerful and useable engine with lots of potential for aftermarket tuning, comfort/luxury/practicality ect. However I'd not a fan of the Haldex AWD system and the overall handling dynamics. The car is quick in a straight line yes, but overall it just wasn't that exciting to drive, just a golf with a powerful engine really. Still a great car though and I can understand why it's so popular.
The best thing for you to do is test drive both, they are 2 very different cars and I'm sure you'll be able to decide which is better for you after experiencing both first hand.

Some very good points there! I didn't even think about the NVH. I realise that there will be sacrifices to be made in relation to storage and creature comforts such as seat warmers (as i Love them during winter haha!) but I'm hoping the driving feel, steering, shifting and the fact that it's a purpose built sports car makes up for those things.

Being a 15+ year old car, what are some of the maintenance wear and tear items which need to be addressed? So that I can look out for these things in my hunt to find a minter...

I actually own a MK6 Golf R which I have modified and was thinking about swapping over to the S2K. Trying to stay as unbiased as I can, I agree in that it's not as exciting to drive when compared to a drivers car such as the S2K, however, the reason why I got it when I did was because I needed a car that could do everything. The Golf R fit the bill and does everything very well. It's comfortable, practical, big boot, plenty of power (i'm putting out 220kw at all 4's now), German build quality, creature comforts, AWD grip, fuel efficient when not going for spirited drives, and they actually are quite reliable and servicing doesn't cost too much. Obviously taking it to a qualified VW/Audi/VAG mechanic who knows what they're doing helps with keeping costs low as well as making sure it's being treated properly rather than at the dealers...much like how most S2K/ITR owners would take their car to their own reputable trusted mechanic than back to Honda who might have an apprentice work on it.

However, the reason why I was entertaining the idea of an S2K, was because although the Golf R does everything very well, the fact that it does everything well is also it's downfall I feel. It's a "jack of all trades, king of none" so to speak. It doesn't do one thing amazingly well. Compared to a drivers car like the S2K, everything sings its praise regarding shift and steering feel and how it's a pure drivers car in every sense of the word. Unfortunately, that is what the Golf R lacks, despite the many mods I have done. Having said that, it's been reliable from the day I picked it up from the dealers brand new, and has been maintained correctly and for what it is, I felt like I made the right choice at the time, so no ragrets in that department.

I'm going to test drive an AP2 this friday so hopefully it'll clear a few things up! Haha Thanks again for your response mate! Some more food for thought!

[stephen8512]

Hey man and welcome
I've owned my 01 S2000 since December 2013 so I guess I can help with your questions. Most have been answered already so I'll just give my opinion on them briefly.

-For those that own AP1's, would you buy an AP2 if you could do it again provided everything was all okay? (price was within budget, body, colour, etc)
Given the massive price difference id still stay with AP1 and mod it instead. AP2 is all about the wank factor imo haha
Modifying the AP1 basically negates all the positives the AP2 has in stock form.

- Is there much of a difference aside from exterior cosmetics, wheels, glass roof from MY02, different style seats and dash cluster when comparing AP1 and AP2? I think the rear subframe on AP2 is different, but anything else? As in, can the changes be noted as a "facelift" more than anything? AFAIK, the AP1 and AP2 are still the F20C and not the F22C that the US got with their AP2's?
As mentioned cosmetics were updated, suspension was tweaked to handle better etc. a few engine components were also upgraded to rectify small issues found with the AP1.
Basically the AP2 is more of a facelift version in aus as we don't have the F22 motor.

- If we have an AP1 and AP2 for sale, both travelled same amount of kms, both stock and both well maintained with regular servicing intervals, is the AP2 worth the extra money simply because it's "newer" and a "facelift"?
It's a newer model so it's always going to be more expensive. It comes down to whether it is worth it to you. Do you spend that extra money for a well refined newer version or do you buy the older/cheaper version that is well looked after and still have money to play around with it.

- How is the S2K as a daily? I know it doesn't have much low down torque and have been told that if you were to short shift, it doesn't feel any different than driving something like an EK Civic for example....
I don't daily the s2000 really. It basically only gets driven to/from the track and occasionally for work.
That said coming from a golf R you will notice the power/torque difference greatly
Myself though when driving I'm not trying to take off at the lights like a drag race so it feels the same as any other car. As it's a convertible NVH is higher than other cars but not that bad.
Blind spot is bad as with any convertible.

- Have you regretted buying your S2K? If so, why?
I don't regret getting a s2000 as I absolutely love them but maybe there's a little twinge of regret for getting my specific S2000 as I got a more expensive super clean/low KM example then went and "ruined" it by making it a semi track car haha. I just feel bad as it was such a nice car to begin with haha

- What is it about your S2K that you love?
pure fun to drive. When modified correctly it's an absolute machine at the track.
9000rpm!!!

- What is some things you dislike about the S2K?
Its a convertible. S2000 would be the perfect car if it was released as a coupe. I've removed soft top and put a hard top in though so same same haha

- Any major problems in owning one, whether it be maintenance
It's a Honda so with the right care and maintenance the motor/car should last forever
Oil filter is super easy to get to which is a plus!

- What are some things to look out for when buying one second hand from your experience?
Just the usual stuff, get it inspected by a professional, do a revs check and make sure everything checks out. Check to make sure all the main systems are working properly etc


Hopefully that helps you in your quest for a s2000
Ps. I want to buy a golf R soon to actually use as a daily

Great post mate thanks for that! I'm looking for that "pure fun to drive" factor too. Don't get me wrong, my Golf R is awesome and I love it but to be honest, it will never compare to a car which was purpose built from the ground up to be a sports car for the driver...

I've been following your thread on JDMST. Hopefully you got that battery issue sorted You should invest in a C-TEK trickle charger. I have one for the Golf for when I know I'm not going to drive it for a while (interstate for work or holiday or something)

[plAythiNG]

I use a ctek and its amazing so far!

Concerned you are (over) paying for an AP2 which is only amrginally better than the AP1... put suspension aside;

front and rear bumpers - $1800
front and rear head/tail lights - $2000
glass roof - $800
center console - $500
wheels - $1200

IMO the above is the main reasons people want an AP2, and thats worth around $5300 more than an AP1 given the same quality, kilometres etc.