Evo Magazine: GT86 vs E30 M3 vs Clio 200 Cup vs DC2R

[andrew84tran]

didnt you say you were getting an 86?

i do own an 86. but felix's dc2r is so squeaky clean! always wanted a dc2 over a dc5, just couldnt ever find the right one.

[cordz]

Great write up, and all great cars. Andrew, so what's this suspicious talk about wanting a DC2R?

[felixR]

Evo Magazine: GT86 vs E30 M3 vs Clip 200 Cup vs DC2R

Great write up, and all great cars. Andrew, so what's this suspicious talk about wanting a DC2R?

He only wants mine

[QWOPPER]

brilliant read thanks for the post

[EG30]

Great scan FelixR, thanks for sharing with fellow Club ITR members.

Bought that issue of Evo when I saw the cars featured.

Funny how this article came under the radar in this forum with comparsions being made between the DC2R and E30 M3

I had the E30 M3 to thank for my venture into Hondas. I needed a car to do tracking shots of a close fren's E30 M3 when he decided to sell it with a car that has a split tailgate where I could hang my torso and camera as low as possible where the rear bumper is at speeds of 70-80km/h safely and 4wd like range rovers and sante fe's had this setup but it was way too high and the EG was the only choice and I bought an EG solely for this purpose. It was my 1st ever Jap car purchase, previously only owned an E21 3 series, couple of E30's 3 series, Merc C class and BMW 2002. After my 1st EG purchase, another followed, and I still own a ed9 crx and share a dc2r with a fren who used to own that E30 M3.

What was to be only by photo shoot car turn into something much more. Instead of selling the car shortly after the shot in 2005/6 was finished which was the original plan I still have the car today. The car slowly won me over and once I learned what I could do to improve the car from the info avail on Ozhonda the car ( an eg5 zc engined Si model ) was slowly turned into a poor man's Gti, then a B16a vtec conversion done by BYP in 2007 ( yes I did have to send the car from Perth to NSW for this ) and became my racecar in 2008 and had plenty of good times in it ever since. When I first joined Ozhonda in 2005, I paid tribute to the E30 with the username EG30.

Pic I took from the back of my EG:




Anyway back to the article.

Haven't had a chance to sample the FT86/BRZ as yet, but I have driven the series 3 Clio sport featured, and many of the more common series 2 172/182 Clio sports, and of course the dc2r we currently own and the E30 M3 my fren used to own.

Concidentally the E30 M3 ( along with normal E30 ), dc2R ( along with eg's ) and FT86/BRZ share the same 2570mm wheelbase.

Both the E30 M3 and DC2R started from a lot humble beginnings and undergone huge revisions during its model life ie engine upgrades, suspension upgrades 5 studs, stub axles/hubs/brakes from the 5 series for the M3 and bigger hubs 4x114 and later 5x114 stud pattern and bigger brakes for dc2r. In the case of the M3 a lot of work was done to the body ie flared guards front and rear, aero evolution over the years to keep their racecars competitive, and major rework of the rear windshield ie more rake to feed more air to rear spoiler. Extra stiffening of body panels, lightening of body, thinner glasses etc were done for both cars also by the factories.

Though the E30 M3, especially my fren's old car being the final evolution model ie Evo Sport 2.5 model being the most sought after model with only 600 qty ever made for homologation being 100X more collectable than a DC2R; the DC2R even in stock Aust spec form isn't much slower than the final evolution of the E30 M3 let alone the more common 2.3L versions. The dc2r can access its performance much easier without fuss ( fwd, lighter chassis 1113kg vs 1250kg, much slicker and easier to use gearbox, shorter fd 4.7 vs 3.15 all helps ) and neither of us miss the M3 much apart from its collectability and long term appreciation potential. The cost and the rarity of its parts being the final evo certainly detracts from using it as a daily or leaving the car out anywhere on the streets as we do now with our dc2. Imagine trying to source a Evo sport 2.5L cyl head with bigger valves second hand? DC2R PR3 heads are much easier to come by.

Driving the E30 M3 was never dull, most certainly sounds and feels a lot faster than it actually is with the factory ITB with intake plenum box resonating away and the lively rear end always ready to drift and so easily controllable also with the factory ZF 25% lock up LSD. Felt privileged to have the car loaned to me for a year to play with back in 2004/5.

Steering wise with the M3 being a converted to RHD when new with 325i rack has some 3.5 turns lock to lock which is very slow and does spoils the experience a lot ( nowadays one can fit faster rack from Z3 to RHD E30s easily ) and the DC2R though much improved from the 3.4 turns of the garden variety models to 2.95 turns but still could be better. Drive a clio sport with around 2.5 turns lock to lock and you'll see what I mean. Car felt much more alive, urgent and modern as a result. Some late model Alfas are around the 2.4 turns lock to lock mark.

But back to back comparisions of the dc2r and the E30 M3 is a bit unfair to the M3 despite its badge and motorsport heritage. Don't forget the E30 was launched in 1983 ( AH Civic days for Honda ), and it's 4 cyl S14 M engine was a shortened version of its 6 Cyl M88 unit which debuted back in the M1 mid engine supercar back in the late 70's. The DC2 came out in 1994 and the B series vtec engine dated back to 1989.
Chassis wise the garden variey E30's had a very narrow track compared to Dc2 and eg's, and even the widened M3 with its flared guards aren't all that wide. It's axles are also very inset hence very deep dish wheels could be fitted to them and look mint as a result.

Which brings us back to the present with the FT86/BRZ.

Though it only scored a 4 star rating in the Evo article and I do agree with their findings....

It's still early days, in fact very early days for a car with a long designated life ( I wont be surprised if they can stretch it out to around 10 years, or even more (16 years was possible in the case of the Boxster 986/987).

Don't forget the E30 and DC2 were a lot more oridinary even in performance forms when they came out. Who talks about the early E30 323i and early DC2 Vti-R's anymore?

If you have a look at the track width of the FT86/BRZ in stock form you'll notice it's bloody wide with plenty of room for further widening in the future by factory mods or aftermarket fitment of different offset wheels/ guard rolling. No real need for that yet of course with the modest power they currently have.

But with plenty of power upgrade with factory forced induction engine fitted being a no brainer, they just don't want to say too much so as many punters buy the current NA cars; factory encouragement of aftermarket tuning and most importantly the affordable to the masses price tags worldwide would ensure plentiful supply of cars down the track for punters to buy used and start their own projects so the future is hugely bright with this car and in years to come it could well be the car that takes over from the EG in the USA as the must have car to mod, customise or compete in it be it drift, drag or circuit.

[tinkerbell]

lovely post - thanks for sharing

[felixR]

lovely post - thanks for sharing

+1 Always good to read some real life experiences.