EP3 Civic TypeR (JDM) question

[szymonsta]

hi guys, im after some informed opinions on the EP3R. I used to have a nice DC2R and am hoping to get something similar next year. Another DC2R is an option, however something newer and with less kms would be nice..If i could get hold of a JDM dc5R that would be nice but theyre only private imprts and maybe only 1 or 2 in australia..ep3r seems to be the next closest thing..

is the power difference between jdm dc5r and jdm ep3r down to ecu or exhaust only? (ie with a nice jdm aftermarket full exhaust will the power difference dissappear?)

i have heard the handling is not as precise as the dc2r due to the mcpherson strut front suspension, particularly when lowered with coilovers..any experience with this? do roll centre adjusters (for example J's racing ones) solve this issue?

they weigh just over 100kg more than the dc2r. is this noticeable in handling and feel of the car?

also, is the dash-mounted gearstick ok because it doesnt look as nice as a conventional setup..

appreciate any thoughts on the subject

ps hi to all the guys who remember me from years back!

[felixR]

welcome back!

I still have my DC2R and my wife has an EP3 (04 model with the lightened flywheel, revised suspension, etc).. so I guess I can contribute a little.

The gearstick placement is so good. It's right next to the steering wheel and it's so easy to do quick gear changes at the track as your hands don't have to travel far.

Power is good! She has a CAI & full exhaust. Can feel the extra torque compared to the B18C.

I drove it at Wakefield, she has stock suspension, rolls a little when entering corners but turn in is great (lift off oversteer helps) and powering out of corners is no struggle. So I really enjoyed driving it!

Then the next session I hopped back into my DC2R..

[szymonsta]

i guess u r in a PERFECT position to compare them thanks! how does the quality of fit and finish compare vs japanese-made hondas?

[felixR]

lot of plastic used for the dash but quality is fine. it's very simple inside.

[michaelz]

I've seen a Best Motoring comparison around a tight track. JDM DC5R vs EP3R and the Civic beat the Teg thanks to the better power/weight ratio. Performance wise there's certainly not much in it.

[ChargeR]

I've seen a Best Motoring comparison around a tight track. JDM DC5R vs EP3R and the Civic beat the Teg thanks to the better power/weight ratio. Performance wise there's certainly not much in it.

A JDM DC5R is lighter and more powerful than an EP3R .

[Nepolian]

A JDM DC5R is lighter and more powerful than an EP3R .

I was waiting for someone to say this, my EP with 1/4 tank fuel and spare tyre removed came in at 1170 @ Eastern creek, no driver ofcourse. And if I remember correctly, not too far off that when I had to weighbridge it for registration. Is it heavier than the DC5R? I know the brochers advertise 1210 or so but I guessing a weighbridge and WSID would be quite accurate.

As for performance, I did a 13.9 with a SRI and 2.5 cat back when I first got the car, everything else stock including the spare wheel intact and Falkens I got for compliance. Is there a quicker stockish car?

Another EP did wakefield in a near stock EP with only headers and gruppem and clocked 1.15's around wakie.

Here's just some real world numbers for ya!

[ChargeR]

I was waiting for someone to say this, my EP with 1/4 tank fuel and spare tyre removed came in at 1170 @ Eastern creek, no driver ofcourse. And if I remember correctly, not too far off that when I had to weighbridge it for registration. Is it heavier than the DC5R? I know the brochers advertise 1210 or so but I guessing a weighbridge and WSID would be quite accurate.

As for performance, I did a 13.9 with a SRI and 2.5 cat back when I first got the car, everything else stock including the spare wheel intact and Falkens I got for compliance. Is there a quicker stockish car?

Another EP did wakefield in a near stock EP with only headers and gruppem and clocked 1.15's around wakie.

Here's just some real world numbers for ya!

I thought someone would say this too . Not sure whether they can be trusted but Honda claim a 10kg difference between the facelifted Japanese versions of the cars, refer HERE and HERE. They could be fudging those numbers a little though though, it wouldn't be good if the cheaper, non-brembo aluminium caliper equipped EP3 was lighter than the DC5. The Australian DC5 is lighter of course with a claimed weight of 1160kg for the non-AC version.

This doesn't quite agree with your actual numbers though, since the spare doesn't weigh 40kg so I have no idea what the real weights are. I trust Honda a little more than the scales at WSID though, just because I know how equipment like that gets treated and how often it gets calibrated .

I think the weight difference and the power difference are practically negligible though. The cars are practically the same under the skin, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy an EP3 if I wanted the performance of a JDM DC5R. A quick LCA and caliper swap along with a tune and the differences between the cars is pretty much gone.

[johnO]

guys guys guys its just a honda with a k20a relax! we cant get a "jdm" dc5r so lets just stop there - only "jdm" hondas you'll ever get to import is ep3 or fd2r. performance wise you know the ep3r>audm dc5r, because you all know the truth about australia and its watered down engines. brembos? maybe theres performance in braking there, but with good pads like endless ns97 and dba's i think you'd be on par with brembos.

whats the weight of the dc5 with a/c? if its 1160kg without ac theres also the ep3 non cpackage that doesnt come with a/c or power windows too and that should be heaps lighter with all those modules taken out.

Peter cracked about 1.15 or lower in his ep3 around wakefield and this was stock though could've ran semi's.

Heres my opinion of the ep3.
-great daily drive apart from the suspension setup because its made for track and smooth roads of japan which we dont have because our tax money gets wasted on speed cameras and other shit politicians like to use it on.
- recaros are comfy unlike the dc2r/5r with high bolsters but when it came to a track day, i wished i had dc5 recaros. plus getting in and out is easier, also likely hood of saggy bolsters is higher with dc5 recaros if youre a big person like me.

-gear knob position: it doesnt meet the conventions but hey its innovation at it's time and also closer to your steering wheel + your head unit, multi-tasking at its finest. honestly felt its better situated there during track, distance to the wheel is alot shorter.

-it stands out because there isnt many compared to hundreds of integras rolling around sydney and cops dont even pull you over very often. had mine for almost 2years now and ive only been rbt'ed twice.

-plastic interior? there was always an option from honda for the c/f bits and pieces on some ep3s. better interior than your bmw 320 thats for sure, plain as...

cons: bit of torque steer.



end of the day man you buy what you truly like, both cars are a rough drive on sydney roads but not as rough as your dc2. road noise its not as bad as the dc2, you've got some sound deadening there.

[poeter]

Just test drive it and judge for yourself.

Not everyone's cup of tea.

Go to IMG and ask for a test drive. Even if you have no intention to buy, they are still nice enough to offer a test drive without taking down your drivers licence. How good is that!!

[Dny]

I had a DC2R for around 3 years and I sold it to move onto a high powered evo and I've recently purchased a Golf R as a daily.

I've test drove a fair few EP3's as my gf is looking to get one and I am very very surprised at how much low down torque the JDM K20 produces. It reminded me in every way how good it was to be behind the wheel of a real Type R again and made me regret selling my first sports car all over again! The gear positioning is ideal, it's weird for the first 30 seconds while u get used to it then from there its pretty sweet.
I also found it alot more comfortable and more livable than the DC2R but it does lack the pure rawness in the DC2.

[szymonsta]

thanks for the replies everyone! all sounds very good. its on my potential next car shortlist!

[00dc2]

DC2R + Mugen Intake + Maximworks Headers + JDM Cat + RM01A + Mugen ECU + Zeal Coilovers + 16x7 SSR TypeC =

[johnO]

I had a DC2R for around 3 years and I sold it to move onto a high powered evo and I've recently purchased a Golf R as a daily.

I've test drove a fair few EP3's as my gf is looking to get one and I am very very surprised at how much low down torque the JDM K20 produces. It reminded me in every way how good it was to be behind the wheel of a real Type R again and made me regret selling my first sports car all over again! The gear positioning is ideal, it's weird for the first 30 seconds while u get used to it then from there its pretty sweet.
I also found it alot more comfortable and more livable than the DC2R but it does lack the pure rawness in the DC2.

im gonna go offtopic but whats the golf r like? looking to get it early next year when i get my fulls but it just seems like getting another ep3 with boost. love the power of evo 9 and the 07 sti though i want something near new for once. what do you reckon of dsg over manual?

[Dny]

Loving the golf so far, a much 'nicer' car than the Evo X and current STi. Boost comes on nice and early so there's plenty of torque but doesn't rip ur face off when you plant it, just enough to put a smile on your face. Features of the car is fantastic and the build quality is miles ahead of the the japs.
DSG is fantastic, in D it shifts before full boost unless u plant ur foot down and in S it shifts into full boost in every gear, its almost effortless. Though I've read of a few ppl having issues with DSG (Look it up on youtube) I've personally never experienced it.
Bit dissapointed in the electronic steering in the golf, gives virtually no feedback so it dulls down the driving experience a little but I've heard Active Chassis Control helps with that (my car didn't have ACC fitted).

Having said that I still have more fun driving my evo. I probably wouldn't consider an evo ever again for daily duties as I drive a fair way to work and park in tight spaces but on the weekend and on highways the evo is just THAT much more satisfying to drive.
For an all rounder the Golf wins 5 days out of 7 and the evo is always there just to remind me how much I love driving.