S2000 - My Story

[plAythiNG]

My brief feeling is the car with OEM suspension felt the same as my crappy bc br coilovers on the low speed corners, but when taking on the higher speed corners, the car felt a bit more unpredictable. I guess thats also to do with the tyres not being at a more optimal temp and thus non inspiring any confidence Peter.

Next trackd ay is early october so see how we go from there!

[plAythiNG]

Oil Catch Cans

Some of you guys know I have been dealing with the tech guys from Saikou Michi in USA for the past 3 months looking at different setups for the S2000. In short I have decided I am going a closed loop setup, and simply running a catch can in between both lines. This means the OEM setup is retained, no oil is going into the intake (just like an open loop setup) and crankcase pressure is relieved from the PCV.

I then started looking for RHD / S2000 specific kits and found there was nothing but the Radium setup as a "plug and play" setup. I liked the Radium setup as the design of the inlet and outlets on each can is located in a way for vapour retaining no oil to leave the catch can and find it's way back into the intake. I dont exactly like this setup as to drain the oil, you have to unscrew the bottom section of the can, and well I cant share any more info as the website doesn't really go into much more detail than that. Secondly there is an add-on accessory called the Petcock drain kit which I'm assuming utilises a bung at the bottom of the can's to release the oil. Again Radium doesnt go into any further on this component.

Moddiction offers a fancy looking metal custom fab setup I think from AB Speed which is a catch can/coolant overflow bottom replacement. The unit looks awesome but is more focused on race car catch can setups where the PCV/Breather hoses run to the same catch can, vented to atmosphere. This meant this option was a no go as it only had 1 inlet and outlet, and I wanted to remain closed loop. IMHO where this unit would really be worthwhile is to add a third bung/outlet and run this third hose straight back into the sump. I've seen a few big HP S2000's run this setup in the states where they've gone for the race car look and tapped two big -10 or 12AN bungs at the front of the valve cover purely for this AB Speed catch can setup, and wonder why they're losing so much oil in even in one session.

The ASM street version isnt baffled, same as the Greddy. I believe the J's can is minorly baffled. Couldnt find any info on the race ASM version. At the end of the day, I knew these big name brands aren't exactly as dedicated to functioning properly, and are moreso targeted for the user that wants complete plug and play.

Thus the hunt began for a custom setup since the Moddiction/AB Speed setup wasnt right for me due to the issues raised above. My search started with finding firstly a proper functional catch can. My search led me to Saikou Michi. A company located in USA with a JDM YO name. In short I am going with their dual catch can setup. WHY? completely customisable in terms of where exactly (and what angle) you want the inlets and outlets positioned. Option for size of catch cans. Two options on how you want to mount the catch can. plenty of draining options to add. Different inlet/outlet sizes, again depending on your setup. Most importantly a functional, baffling catch can. I also did consider the Moroso unit, but knowing that they are a well and truly established company, they would not have the capacity to customise a setup like Saikou Michi has. I've been speaking to the tech guys from Saikou daily for almost a month now, looking at different setups, see what options I have, and moreso me asking plenty of questions about the many setups/options they have.

As Shak is also getting a catch can, I really wanted to have a setup for RHD S2000 such that if the car was bone stock, ie running stock airbox, a dual catch can setup could still be retained. Looked at mounting this in the space in between the H brace and the engine block itself. Saikou Michi did think that was a rather decent area to mount it, and you could use one of the holes where the OEM airbox is screwed into as a mounting location too! Come the weekend and I was disappointed that there isnt exactly all that much space down there due to other car components being in the way. Was really keen on this setup, as the draining options could be mounted straight down and draining the oil would be a breeze when you do change the oil. I then was staring at the car for a solid 20 minutes, looking at different options, but the only suitible answer was mounting it in front of the radiator. Making a bracket off the radiator support brace, just like you would for an oil cooler setup! The only issue was how to drain the oil, and where I would run the 4 hoses in between the engine/intake and catch cans.

Had Shak and Danny come around on the weekend for some fresh ideas, and collectively we concluded mounting in front of the radiator is the best option to ensure if the OEM airbox is retained, dual catch can is still usable. Draining the oil. Initially I was thinking running the lines horizontally back towards near the oil pan.

Downside of this setup is for me to drain the catch cans, the car would have to be jacked up by the front to have the oil drain out. Would not prefer this setup just to simply eliminate risk/variables. Much simpler and functional option is to cut a small section of the plastic of the undertray. That black plastic section at the front of the car where it mounts to the front bumper. By cutting a small section out say the size of your palm will give you enough space to turn the valves and drain oil. SIMPLE!

The second issue was where to route the four hoses. Had a look around, but initially thought I might cut out a small section of the top radiator duct, but realised theres some decent space on the passenger side where the radiator finishes, there some space in between the radiator and the chassis to run the four hoses.

Looks like its been settled, mounting the dual cans in front of the radiator. Because of the plentiful space, will be running the biggest 3inch diameter catch cans. inlets and outlets will be pointing up, located in the center and on each side of the catch can. mounting tab will be the two hole bracket for extra rigidity. draining will use a 1/4 turn ball valve, hose sizes will be OEM size for breather and PCV. The only extra parts needed/source outside of Saikou Michi is 3-4mm thick aluminimum for making bracket to mount cans to radiator brace.

I basically did a copy and paste above from a thread I commented on over on S2Ki.com if anyone wanted to read my thoughts on here. I am looking to install this the same time as an oil cooler as the brackets will run across the width of the radiator.

[Apu]

Really got to give it to you for the amount of thought you put into the catch can! I have to say some of these catch cans are beautifully made (Radium for one!). I run a Works Engineering one (obviously...being the distributor) on my MX5.

Here's the thing - if the engine is spewing a lot of oil...there's a bigger problem that needs to be addressed. My MX5 is turbo'd and MX5 engines...well, they're not the engineering masterpieces that Honda makes. Yet, I only get about a teaspoon of oil in the catch can when I check it - typically after a track day...or once every few months / when I do basic maintenance, etc. I open the top, drop a paper towel in there, pull it out and into the bin. Job done.

Having a cock to drain out etc...too many bits I think.

I haven't fitted one to my Integra as it doesn't really need it. When I took a peek in the intake manifold, it was reasonably clean for an engine that had 170,000+kms on it. That said, my engine is in very good shape...blows next to no smoke on the dyno even. The MX5 by comparison was pretty gunky (before it was turbocharged) and was on about 120,000+kms.

I guess what I'm saying is, the catch can is nice to have but no need to over-engineer the solution.

[PG_DC5]

Can I ask whats the advantage of the double chambers Alex? I have a simple single can set-up with a dipstick (BSH brand) that seems to collect, as Apu said, about a teaspoon a month of oil. I know for a turbo DI engine like the n54 it's to prevent carbon buildup on the intake valves (which can also be helped by using methanol).

As for oil cooler, what sort of temps were you getting that made you get one? N54 has a stock oil cooler (albiet a small one) that keeps temps around 110-115 when really pushing it, and I know up-to 149 degrees can be tolerated on stock boost.

Regardless awesome that you have actually engineered something for your own car! that is literally amazing

[plAythiNG]

Above is the final design.

Its quite common for the F20C to lose quite a bit of oil and the valve cover doesnt work quite well in letting the oil fall back down towards the engine. It gets caught up the top of the valve cover, and in track conditions with high speed right handed corners, the oil just pours out the left hand side through the PCV and breather hoses.

I dont expect to be emptying the cans after each session at all, but having it installed with the valve to empty just makes life easier. Especially in the mounting location that I will be installing it at.

Totally agree with you that I have gone down a road of over-engineering a simple bolt on mod for track day enthusiasts. But the S2000 has taught me to use parts that have pure function and to be really mindful of particular parts to buy and its not all about having the longest mod list, or the most expensive. And I sincerely felt that research on all off-the-shelf items was simply overpriced, especially for what function (or lack of) they offered.

Preet, with my readings I found that at the very minimum you need a catch can for the PCV hose. The breather is not as important. However I was looking to place a breather filter on the valve cover, but have read a few posts by S2000 owners that they have experienced oil leaking out of the filter, and I guess that is just reflects what I mentioned at the top of this post RE the loss of oil through the breather and PCV in track conditions. To completely avoid this, I chose to go for a second catch can.

Oil Cooler, the F20C will get up to 125C after a warm up lap and only 2-3 hot laps. I find that to get a better and lower time at the race track, the best mod is track time. So it was getting frustrating I could only do a few laps, lose my momentum and start all over again. With the oil cooler install, with the larger 19row oil cooler I am looking to get much lower temps around the 95-100 range with the cooler itself, and also icnreased oil capacity.

[Apu]

At the end of the day Alex, it's your car and you build it for yourself right? I build my cars with a very pragmatic outlook because my view is if I stack it on the track...nyeah...

If I were to build one to a high level of finish...I'd buy the Radium bits!

As for oil temps - I don't know about the F20C but gee...that sounds high! I get 110degC...maybe 120degC oil temp, and this is belting the turbo MX5 around Wakefield on a warm day. I haven't fitted an oil temp gauge to the Integra as yet.

Not sure if you can do this with the S2K but I mounted the oil cooler in the firewall cowl area on the MX5. It keeps the oil cooler in a very safe location in case I run off the track or have a bingle I don't suddenly lose oil and cook the engine. Given that is a high pressure zone, it works great when running at speed...very effective in fact! Getting stuck in traffic however...much less effective!

[sikboy]

I open the top, drop a paper towel in there, pull it out and into the bin. Job done.

The catch can should have some kind of baffle in it or else the can isn't really doing its job.

[eskimo_firefighter]

That's one comprehensive write up about the catch can, interesting read.

[Apu]

The catch can should have some kind of baffle in it or else the can isn't really doing its job.

Yes and no...it's an oily vapour, so unless it's a multi-layered baffle, separating the inlet and outlet, the benefit will be marginal. If you think about it, the "best" design is a horizontal pipe, with the nipple at either end with multiple baffles in between...unfortunately that makes it ridiculously expensive for very marginal benefit.

I just dropped a stainless scouring pad in there. That works really well...and dirt cheap too.

The catch can is a "nice to have". You really don't get any performance gain from it if your engine is healthy. What it does is it provides you with the opportunity to keep check and alert you to any issues if you find there is an unusual amount of oil collected.

[sikboy]

I have a moroso can with multiple baffles inside and a drain on the bottom. It really doesn't cost that much. By memory it was less than $100 but it was second hand.

[Apu]

Rather than hijack Alex's build, I'll started a new thread where we can discuss this.

[sugz]

anything new for next trackday?

[plAythiNG]

Yeah just got some petrol

[Bluscreama]

Less Facebook updates more citr updates lol
Inb4filledpetrol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[plAythiNG]

Sorry guys for such a delayed post.

I got a new phone, and only just copied the 6 worthwhile pictures to post here for the oil cooler install.

Anyways, lets go with the oil cooler install firstly. In this post, I'll cover different parts of the setup too!

The F20C runs hot. Quick. at Wakefield my oil temp gets to 125C within a few hot laps. Just quickly, I have made the switch to Penrite ten tenths 10W-40, and noticed that this has reduced my oil temps by 5C in normal street driving, and I can squeeze out an extra hot lap at Wakefield too. Will be stocking up on these come boxing day sales later this year at SCA!

Anyways, an oil cooler is an incredibily popular mod for track guys, especially with the S2000. Was looking towards the Trust/Greddy option for around the $850 mark. But as I did more and more research, I steered away from this option. Just quickly the Greddy trust cooler is complete bolt on, complete with a 10row EARLS oil cooler, Earls lines and fittings, bracket to fit S2000, greddy sandwich plate.


Sandwich Plate
As I did more research on what parts you get etc, I didnt like sandwich plate given. Sorry let me rephrase. Their sandwich plate is perfect in every way except for one thing. Firstly where it outshines;

- It is the only off-the-shelf sandwich plate that offers 4 ports (2 for oil cooler, 2 for sensors) as well as a thermostat
- Greddy quality
- Being Japanese, and my gauges being Defi (made in Japan) meant that the metrics are exactly the same; 1/8PT.

However the deal breaker was that the thermostat begin to work at a low 73C. As this car will be doing street driving, I had to have a thermostat. As good as an oil cooler gets to cool your oil from being too hot, a low temp thermostat can dangerously place your car on the other side of the spectrum; running too cold. As I did my research, everyone highly recommends the UK product offering by Mocal. Their sandwich plate with the thermostat configuration has two options; 180F (82C) or 200F (93C) The general consensus for street driven cars was that owners regretted going for the 180F option and suggested for others to opt for the 200F. Reason behind this was the temps weren't as high as they preferred for the street. Thus I ordered the 200F thermostat from Think Automotive in the UK. Was best pricing as you dont pay the stupid USA shipping. The part number is MOC-SP1FT-HT for the 200F option. Thread is also M20x1.5mm too for anyone else searching!

Proposed option to fit sensors
This is the most difficult part of the setup for me, and basically the reason why the oil cooler hasnt been complete. I searched all over to see if there were any other brands out there that offered the sandwich plate like the Greddy, but with a higher temp operating thermostat. Pretty disappointed there wasnt anything. I then began looking to see if you could change the thermostat on the greddy option, and again I got nowhere.

I then reading many forums, and seeing how people would tap for oil temp and pressure. Many simply use a fitting that replaces their oil pan sump plug that enables them to insert the oil temp sensor. I wasnt exactly sold on this idea as there were comments saying that you dont exactly get an accurate reading of the oil (even though this is where majority of the oil sits) due to the sensor being low, and capturing cooler air also... I purely wasnt a fan because in case something was to catch up on the wiring, and pull it out... Oil pressure, people just get a T fitting and tapped off the block, however it was commonly resonated that upon continous high rpm, this fitting would be a weak point, and fail.. I then went back to my earls catalogue book for a browse, and came across their offering of pressure gauge fittings.



I was thinking if I put this on each -10an fitting of the sandwich plate, this could potentially work. I spoke to Jack from Earls Silverwater and discussed this option. He said he has done this before but there is one thing I have to consider; the depth of the actual oil temp sensor. He has done a few race cars with this setup, and Haltech even re-did their oil temp sensors shorter to fit inside the fitting. Unfortunately Defi's oil temp sensor is quite long.


Item on the right is a popular sump plug where you can also screw in an oil temp sensor. On the left is the Defi Oil temp sensor


Defi Oil Pressure sensor is only 10mm protruding. However the Oil temp sensor is 28mm deep!

Since the oil temp is quite long, I needed to find a fitting that gave the sensor a spacer so it could fit, but also so I can correct the fitting size to be perfect. Being Earls, that fitting is 1/8NPT. Since the Defi sensor being jap it is 1/8PT. Thus I wanted a small fitting where the HEX was around 20mm thick. The female section to be 1/8PT. And the male section to be 1/8NPT. Also as well, Japanese PT=BSPT (British Standard Pipe Taper). I searched the world again, and no one had this fitting. Not even Speedflow/Aeropro etc. There was only one place that had it; mcmaster.com

Link HERE
Part No: 4092K26



As per above total length is 1.09", and the thread engagement is 0.26" thus the hex section is 0.83" or 21mm! Exactly what I am after to fit on one of the pressure gauge fittings, so the defi temp sensor will work. I havent even engaged with Mcmaster as im sure I will get raped by price of shipping, so seeing if Jack can get me something for much cheaper.

Lines & Fittings
I went with -10an size hoses as it purely is the most common used size for the F20C. Again Jack also said this is most optimal. I did upgrade to the black version for a more stealth look, but also being stronger metal, and the hose is nylon rather than the abrasive metal hose. I wasnt sure exactly how I wanted to mount the oil cooler, either horizontally or vertically, so I opted for two 90degree fittings to start things off. I also got some -10an sized hose separators. Jack being the salesman cross-sold me these on the basis that there is no point setting up a oil cooler, only to cable tie together the two hot/cold hoses... Looks cleaner and boss too!

Oil Cooler
Again, the most common size for the F20C is the 19row cooler, Jack also said he would suggest me get this size to suit the power of the engine. I think the Greddy option being 10row, works well because of the low temp thermostat making the oil cooler work much earlier. Again for stealthness I paid an extra $15 for black option. I also got the Earls bracket. I like this bracket as it mounts to the cooler with hardened rubber inbetween to act as a shock absorber. That and it looks much cleaner than getting some DIY L brackets etc to mount to the car.

Installation
My inspiration was to have it installed like this;

.

One free weekend, I removed the front bumper, and top air diversion plate. Theres actually quite a bit of room in between the AC hardline and radiator/air conditioning thing. I also removed the horn and AC canister, and played with the earls bracket. Shak came around by then, and suggested that we enlarge one of the holes on the Earls bracket , and by doing this we were able to mount the bracket+oil cooler to three existing holes on the radiator support. Thus no drilling into the car! Yes!



Used a hole for the horn, one back on the AC canister, and towards the bottom, put a bolt through the back, and a nut up front. Also used washers front and rear for exta support? Also the horn by factory sits on the drivers side. Just reverse bolted the horn so it sits on the passenger side now. Pretty happy with this! Also ot some black rust guard and hit a few coats on the AC canister. It just looks so ugly, so might as well make it all stealth!